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  #61  
Old 21.02.2019, 11:15
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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Not as motvation, but as justification.
Why demand justification from anyone, though...What right does anyone have? 1948 all over again, confiscations, blech.

Instead of focusing on creating something together. I see that as a cop out. That's why I speak of motivation. Or maybe it is a teacher thing. Naieve or optimistic.
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  #62  
Old 21.02.2019, 11:28
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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Why demand justification from anyone, though...What right does anyone have? 1948 all over again, confiscations, blech.

Instead of focusing on creating something together. I see that as a cop out. That's why I speak of motivation. Or maybe it is a teacher thing. Naieve or optimistic.


Justification because we are talking about a controlled environment. If you can show that one side in a debate is somehow evil or has benefitted from evil in the past or can be associated with somebody who has, their arguments, however well put, become less valid. Suddenly a guy doing a Roman Salute becomes much more scandalous and worthy of outrage and than a guy being murdered. Anybody who says,"but what about the murder" is labelled as being in cahoots with the Roman guy. If you control the narrative you get to decide who wins the debate
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  #63  
Old 21.02.2019, 11:40
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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Are you writing from the future?
I'm writing from Switzerland where I feel I have a very privileged life. What happens in the UK is not so important over here. I don't know anyone who really thinks in these terms apart from some people on EF.
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  #64  
Old 21.02.2019, 11:41
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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Justification because we are talking about a controlled environment. If you can show that one side in a debate is somehow evil or has benefitted from evil in the past or can be associated with somebody who has, their arguments, however well put, become less valid. Suddenly a guy doing a Roman Salute becomes much more scandalous and worthy of outrage and than a guy being murdered. Anybody who says,"but what about the murder" is labelled as being in cahoots with the Roman guy. If you control the narrative you get to decide who wins the debate
Yes. But. Winning what...A medal? 5sec online victory dance and 5 lukewarm likes? Don't only people who don't like themselves look for scoring cheap quick victories, to like themselves for 5min?

People disingenuously trying to control the narrative but the truth can only be controlled so much.

How's my English?
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  #65  
Old 21.02.2019, 11:58
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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Yes. But. Winning what...A medal? 5sec online victory dance and 5 lukewarm likes? Don't only people who don't like themselves look for scoring cheap quick victories, to like themselves for 5min?

People disingenuously trying to control the narrative but the truth can only be controlled so much.

How's my English?
I can see what you're tyring to do here.


It's very naughty but I like it.
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  #66  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:03
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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I can see what you're tyring to do here.


It's very naughty but I like it.
Get a room you two!

Enough of confiscating the discussion about confiscating the discussion...:-)

(I'm kidding....I'm almost certain that none of us will ever fully agree with anyone else here, online or IRL. Too different characters and life experiences)
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  #67  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:10
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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I'm writing from Switzerland where I feel I have a very privileged life. What happens in the UK is not so important over here. I don't know anyone who really thinks in these terms apart from some people on EF.
There are no (or no particularly relevant) gender or race issues in Switzerland these days?
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  #68  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:11
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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I can see what you're tyring to do here.


It's very naughty but I like it.
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  #69  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:12
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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This, and of course the entire cuteness of an armchair historian who grew up in the confortable and priviledged west telling somebody who actually lived through communism that actually, they remember it all wrong.
The problem as I see it is that communism requires a non-hierarchical society, an anarchic essentially. That doesn't happen, you have hierarchies in every group of people, let alone in a society. Even one where everybody has a say needs some form of organisation, at least some arbiter who determines who has the right to speak at any given moment - et voilą, there's a hierarchy, someone with more power than everybody else.

As a result one can validly say it isn't real communism. Just like you can always say "that's not a real unicorn".
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  #70  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:12
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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Get a room you two!

Enough of confiscating the discussion about confiscating the discussion...:-)

(I'm kidding....I'm almost certain that none of us will ever fully agree with anyone else here, online or IRL. Too different characters and life experiences)
I don't think any reasonable human is looking for identical opinions. Why do that.
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  #71  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:15
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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There are no (or no particularly relevant) gender or race issues in Switzerland these days?
Compared to other places? I think not really.
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  #72  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:18
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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The problem as I see it is that communism requires a non-hierarchical society, an anarchic essentially. That doesn't happen, you have hierarchies in every group of people, let alone in a society. Even one where everybody has a say needs some form of organisation, at least some arbiter who determines who has the right to speak at any given moment - et voilą, there's a hierarchy, someone with more power than everybody else.

As a result one can validly say it isn't real communism. Just like you can always say "that's not a real unicorn".
Right. So we can only really analyse the reasons that chasing unicorns appeals so much. Unicorns being implausible, unimplementable theories. There are so many unicorns being offered to people. They just don't call it "stealing" or "a putch".
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  #73  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:22
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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There are no (or no particularly relevant) gender or race issues in Switzerland these days?
Of course there are. Boys and young men are severely disadvantaged, roughly 50% more girls attain the Matura than boys.
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  #74  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:24
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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Of course there are. Boys and young men are severely disadvantaged, roughly 50% more girls get the Matura then boys. This is bound to have severe consequencs in the coming years.
This isn't a particularly CH thing.
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  #75  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:27
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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This isn't a particularly CH thing.
How does that make the problem any less important? Or the discrimination any better?
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  #76  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:27
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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Of course there are. Boys and young men are severely disadvantaged, roughly 50% more girls attain the Matura than boys.
Why do you think it happens?

As I see it
- girls become mature earlier than boys
- they set their priorities earlier
- they're less confident (in general) therefore apply themselves more

It's all cheap psychological crap of course. Any other explanations?
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  #77  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:29
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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Compared to other places? I think not really.
Eh? So that makes them "not so relevant"?
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  #78  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:30
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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How does that make the problem any less important? Or the discrimination any better?
It doesn't at all. GM and Mirf were talking about CH, hence my comment.

These stats on female vs male ratio of study success are internationally known for decades, btw.

I have a theory on this but it is safer to ask Google.
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  #79  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:34
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

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Why do you think it happens?

As I see it
- girls become mature earlier than boys
- they settle their priorities earlier
- they're less confident (in general) therefore apply themselves more

It's all cheap psychological crap of course. Any other explanations?
Yep, the way info is delivered in a class, physical need to move vs sit still, competitiveness and the way the tests are designed, lot of memorization vs logic. And what a society actually considered a successful or "smart" student. Quite often it is simple elbow grease and patience.
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  #80  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:37
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Re: In defence of Cecil Rhodes (The modern political cult of historical revisionism)

I wanted to thank a few times but I miss the thank button. :-)
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