Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #321  
Old 05.08.2020, 13:45
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,681
Groaned at 291 Times in 236 Posts
Thanked 24,909 Times in 10,525 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
Everyone can freely choose to ignore whoever they like - nobody's stopping you.

You seem to be confusing the word "ignore" with "avoid seeing things that I won't be able to ignore".
Exactly. There is a huge difference between chosing to ignore a post by just not reading it, and sticking your head in the sand so you won't even see there is something not to read. The ignore function is in effect a sand bucket.

The number of people who have flounced and loudly announced they were putting somebody on ignore, only to respond to them anyway. Maybe they think that putting somebody on ignore is some sort of a statement that others should not be able to ignore.
Reply With Quote
  #322  
Old 05.08.2020, 13:46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
View Post
Obviously, it is rational to grasp that people come to bars for a bunch of reasons. Unfortunately you will have the odd few who will pick on others, especially those who veer off the norm.
Sorry, are you saying it is or isn't alright to pick on Chelsea fans in the bar?
Reply With Quote
  #323  
Old 05.08.2020, 13:48
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,681
Groaned at 291 Times in 236 Posts
Thanked 24,909 Times in 10,525 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
View Post
Indeed, the forum threads are like bars in downtown. One must choose which one is worth to visit and stay. Once you found one you don't like, why stay? It's impossible to like all conversations, it's irrational to have this expectation.
This exactly.

Certain thread topics develop in a certain dirtection. Anbody who has been through more than about two cycles of it on the EF can predict from the thread title alone where it's probably heading.

If that sort of thing is too much for your tolerance, just avoid opening those threads.
Reply With Quote
  #324  
Old 05.08.2020, 13:57
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,295
Groaned at 395 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 20,010 Times in 10,415 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
Sorry, are you saying it is or isn't alright to pick on Chelsea fans in the bar?
Never pick on a weaker opponent. Oops.

And a decent sport, ice-hockey, obviously. What else to get passionate about?
Reply With Quote
  #325  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:15
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,056
Groaned at 228 Times in 192 Posts
Thanked 21,561 Times in 8,834 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
Everyone can freely choose to ignore whoever they like - nobody's stopping you.

You seem to be confusing the word "ignore" with "avoid seeing things that I won't be able to ignore".
Ok, give me one valid reason as to why mods are immune from being put on somebody’s ignore list?
If the function exists then it should be applied equally to everyone.

Choosing to not see posts made by certain people is a choice that people should be free to make.
Reply With Quote
  #326  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:19
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
View Post
Ok, give me one valid reason as to why mods are immune from being put on somebody’s ignore list?
If the function exists then it should be applied equally to everyone.

Choosing to not see posts made by certain people is a choice that people should be free to make.
It really boils down to whether mods are actually normal users (as I have seen some of them claim) in which case, of course, they should be as blockable as anyone else, or whether they are indeed "powerusers" in which case, in order that all may see their dictats, it is important they are not blockable.

You can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds, as they say.
Reply With Quote
  #327  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:20
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,295
Groaned at 395 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 20,010 Times in 10,415 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

It is too bad that some fail to see the absurdity in simultaneously asking mods to be tougher and at the same time they ask for a right to be excluded from this. Very selective.
Reply With Quote
  #328  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:25
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 288
Groaned at 199 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 995 Times in 467 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
Or maybe the people asking should just stop reading their posts? Two way street I suppose.
This is the rational conclusion but where's the dramaqueening in that?
Reply With Quote
  #329  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:25
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
View Post
This is the rational conclusion but where's the dramaqueening in that?
I'm sure you'll find a way
Reply With Quote
  #330  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:29
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,295
Groaned at 395 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 20,010 Times in 10,415 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
View Post
This is the rational conclusion but where's the dramaqueening in that?
That relates to different reasons people go to bars for.
Reply With Quote
  #331  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:29
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
View Post
It is too bad that some fail to see the absurdity in simultaneously asking mods to be tougher and at the same time they ask for a right to be excluded from this. Very selective.
I don't think being tougher on rogue elements (i.e. behind the scenes actions like blocking, warning PMs etc) and people not being able to see their posts (i.e. in front of the scenes actions) should be considered mutually exclusive as desirable outcomes.

You cannot simultaneously fairly moderate a thread whilst also participating as a contributor, human nature doesn't allow implicit biases not to creep in.

Hence the hare and hounds analogy.
Reply With Quote
  #332  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:41
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,295
Groaned at 395 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 20,010 Times in 10,415 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
I don't think being tougher on rogue elements (i.e. behind the scenes actions like blocking, warning PMs etc) and people not being able to see their posts (i.e. in front of the scenes actions) should be considered mutually exclusive as desirable outcomes.

You cannot simultaneously fairly moderate a thread whilst also participating as a contributor, human nature doesn't allow implicit biases not to creep in.

Hence the hare and hounds analogy.
There we disagree. I think it is more than obvious and not a rocket science when one has to clean up and when one posts a personal opinion.

To pretend that it is impossible is as disingenuous as to pretend that one cannot possibly ignore a post or abstain from a reaction. Usually negative here, mind you.

Let's not fall into the trap of "but you got your opinion because you speak from a position of power". Or assumed privilege. There isn't any, even if some like to assume it because it suits their theory of privilege or agenda. We are housekeeping which means a cleaning service. To ask us for more, ie cancel some members, their unpopular opinions or whatever just because people pretend that they cannot ignore them or abstain from their own reaction...would be really asking us to step into a parent/judge role and we like to think higher of our membership. En plus, why should we diminish diversity of opinions here?
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #333  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:44
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
View Post
Ok, give me one valid reason as to why mods are immune from being put on somebody’s ignore list.
Because we have to be able to assume than any moderation-related message we send, either within a thread, e.g. pointing out that a line has been crossed, or in a PM, will be received (the ignore function applies to PMs as well as on-forum postings).

That is the only reason.
Reply With Quote
  #334  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:44
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
View Post
There we disagree. I think it is more than obvious and not a rocket science when one has to clean up and when one posts a personal opinion.

To pretend that it is impossible is as disingenuous as to pretend that one cannot possibly ignore a post or abstain from a reaction. Usually negative here, mind you.

Let's not fall into the trap of "but you got your opinion because you speak from a position of power". Or assumed privilege. There isn't any, even if some like to assume it because it suits their theory of privilege or agenda. We are housekeeping which means a cleaning service. To ask us for more, ie cancel some members, their unpopular opinions or whatever just because people pretend that they cannot ignore them or abstain from their own reaction...would be really asking us to step into a parent/judge role and we like to think higher of our membership. En plus, why should we diminish diversity of opinions here?
Interesting. I think the common factor then, to keep everyone as compeers, would be to not housekeep on threads you partake in. No post deleting, certainly on content grounds (removing libellous or e.g. racist posts fine), on threads you've commented on.
Reply With Quote
  #335  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
View Post
We are housekeeping which means a cleaning service. To ask us for more, ie cancel some members, their unpopular opinions or whatever just because people pretend that they cannot ignore them or abstain from their own reaction...would be really asking us to step into a parent/judge role and we like to think higher of our membership.
And there we have it. I quote it simply because it eloquently encapsulates my thoughts on the subject.
Reply With Quote
  #336  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:55
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,295
Groaned at 395 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 20,010 Times in 10,415 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
Interesting. I think the common factor then, to keep everyone as compeers, would be to not housekeep on threads you partake in. No post deleting, certainly on content grounds (removing libellous or e.g. racist posts fine), on threads you've commented on.
Theoretically, but why? You know how many times we've got "So many mods in the thread and they aren't modding (as I want them to)?"

So, good theories but in the forum life, some will always ask us for something we don't do and we should. 24/7 and tailored to their particular personal needs. While having a go at our assumed mod's priviledge we are being asked to create it for them. In the name of justice and anti polarisation.

The easiest is as it was said here before: selfmoderate a bit. I'll add something I am missing sometimes here, share your success stories and optimism, too.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #337  
Old 05.08.2020, 14:58
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,518
Groaned at 15 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 2,805 Times in 1,139 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
Interesting. I think the common factor then, to keep everyone as compeers, would be to not housekeep on threads you partake in. No post deleting, certainly on content grounds (removing libellous or e.g. racist posts fine), on threads you've commented on.
This has been mentioned multiple times, it works sometimes and not other times. Mod's are some of the most active members on here, I don't see a reason to bar them from conversations just in case they might need to delete some stuff.
I mean look at some of the mega threads here, at some point in the last 2 years I'm guessing all the mods have posted on all of them.
Reply With Quote
  #338  
Old 05.08.2020, 15:00
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
View Post
Theoretically, but why? You many times we've got "So many mods in the thread and they aren't modding (as I want them to)?"

So, good theories but in the forum life, some will always ask us for something we don't do and we should. 24/7 and tailored to their particular personal needs. While having a go at our assumed mod's priviledge we are being asked to create it for them. In the name of justice and anti polarisation.

The easiest is as it was said here before: selfmoderate a bit. I'll add something I am missing sometimes here, share your success stories and optimism, too.
It isn't really assumed, it just is.

I won't say if it is a good thing or a bad thing, but to deny it isn't sensible.

I'm trying to have a sensible debate on this topic and a mod has already red repped me for it...

You can see the problem we have here.
Reply With Quote
  #339  
Old 05.08.2020, 15:14
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,028
Groaned at 161 Times in 109 Posts
Thanked 2,721 Times in 1,001 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
I'm trying to have a sensible debate on this topic and a mod has already red repped me for it...
Sorry for repeating it again: you are a liiiitle too sensitive. Try to be a little more ignorant. The Art of Not Giving a Fuc% is not only the name of a good book, but a good way of enjoying EF. Very quickly you'll see that each member has a specific style and specific way of responding. And, again stating the obvious, the Mods are not some AI that is completely devoid of human emotions. Their cleanup service is neither glorious, nor paid btw, so cut them some slack. I had a temp ban for privately arguing with a mod I'm still proud of it
Reply With Quote
  #340  
Old 05.08.2020, 15:15
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,295
Groaned at 395 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 20,010 Times in 10,415 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Polarised society:Why?

Quote:
It isn't really assumed, it just is.

I won't say if it is a good thing or a bad thing, but to deny it isn't sensible.

I'm trying to have a sensible debate on this topic and a mod has already red repped me for it...

You can see the problem we have here.
Hey, but I had swaths of nasty red reppers on my back coming in aggressive packs, some of them preaching against quiet underhanded bullying in this very thread. And I wasn't the only target. Some left, things are really much more sensible now, tbh, if you want my opinion - mod or not.

Whether assumptions of our perceived privilege are sensible or not...If I could afford a cleaner, they'd be my gods to look up to. And, we are asked to mod, when it suits, not mod when people might feel overpowered, then don't forget that each of us will get partial in a different way and will see justice differently. As anyone, à la carte, local governance. So be it.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FedCoin & cashless society Sbrinz Finance/banking/taxation 9 10.03.2019 12:19
Golf society in Zurich noza Commercial 8 19.08.2014 22:52
Golf Society in Zug foxbat Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 2 04.03.2012 07:45
Is Switzerland an egalitarian society? Tweener Other/general 34 28.06.2011 22:44
Does Switzerland have a classless society? mark Daily life 49 23.11.2006 16:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0