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  #41  
Old 21.10.2020, 16:30
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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well no, actually it really made me laugh- as it is so stupidly true. One of my cousins in the USA, an ex Indi driver- always said 'getting old ain't for sissies' and it certainly is true. But more important than all, is you sense of humour and self-deprecation that will save you . Talk to you Later- at least us old biddies in Switzerland always have the opt out button, hey !

Thanks
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  #42  
Old 21.10.2020, 16:42
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

Mine's a carnival ride with an ad hoc parade.
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  #43  
Old 21.10.2020, 19:52
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

I would say it is a sailing trip, it can be stormy and you can have periods becalmed, but on the whole it's fun.

I fully intend to jump overboard before my mind sinks.
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  #44  
Old 21.10.2020, 19:54
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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I would say it is a sailing trip, it can be stormy and you can have periods becalmed, but on the whole it's fun.

I fully intend to jump overboard before my mind sinks.
Isn't that when one's the happiest and most carefree, though?
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Old 21.10.2020, 19:57
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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Isn't that when one's the happiest and most carefree, though?
Unfortunately in my experience not really, and making everyone around me miserable isn't how I want to finish.
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Old 21.10.2020, 20:00
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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Thanks
I read today this respected professor/MD back home, his research and classes at med uni are popular. He publishes in the media too, today on the note of "all of us living on borrowed time after we turn 40". His realism reminded me your thread. His theories are a bit antidote to the 40 is the new 20 mantra.
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  #47  
Old 22.10.2020, 09:06
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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I read today this respected professor/MD back home, his research and classes at med uni are popular. He publishes in the media too, today on the note of "all of us living on borrowed time after we turn 40". His realism reminded me your thread. His theories are a bit antidote to the 40 is the new 20 mantra.

I was looking at a Covid related graph recently and it was showing cause of death and various illnesses by age group, it was extremely sobering
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  #48  
Old 22.10.2020, 09:35
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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I would say it is a sailing trip, it can be stormy and you can have periods becalmed, but on the whole it's fun.
Size of the boat plays a part too, small boat = more choppiness

I have been told that 250k salary smooths out the choppy sea, 120k makes the sea bearable, anything lower and sharks are constantly biting at your feet
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I fully intend to jump overboard before my mind sinks.
A much older friend of mine did that. They wanted me to be there on the final day but I could not face it. I also did not want to be near my friend's selfish kids and their crocodile tears. No point overthinking now but maybe I should have been there.

I met my friend the evening before for the final time, it was very sad and strange but very refreshing to see someone leave on their own terms. My friend could easily have lived another 15 years, but they just had enough of this world. Their logical conclusion was that life was not going to improve so better to go on a semi high.
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  #49  
Old 22.10.2020, 11:45
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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Size of the boat plays a part too, small boat = more choppiness

I have been told that 250k salary smooths out the choppy sea, 120k makes the sea bearable, anything lower and sharks are constantly biting at your feet
A much older friend of mine did that. They wanted me to be there on the final day but I could not face it. I also did not want to be near my friend's selfish kids and their crocodile tears. No point overthinking now but maybe I should have been there.

I met my friend the evening before for the final time, it was very sad and strange but very refreshing to see someone leave on their own terms. My friend could easily have lived another 15 years, but they just had enough of this world. Their logical conclusion was that life was not going to improve so better to go on a semi high.
Life's not going to improve so better go on a semi high........that's a curious standard to take a decision. I'd say it's the starting point, the logical conclusion is to kill oneself.

What if we apply the standard to other situations? My business is going well, better leave now, later it may go bankrupt. Marriage is happy, better kill myself now before the relationship goes awry. My (future) children are happy and healthy, better exit now before one of them has a tragic experience. The sea is calm, the sun is shinning, better jump overboard before the ship is caught by a storm. I don't know, cannot say what it lacks, but something is missing.
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  #50  
Old 22.10.2020, 13:13
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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Size of the boat plays a part too, small boat = more choppiness

I have been told that 250k salary smooths out the choppy sea, 120k makes the sea bearable, anything lower and sharks are constantly biting at your feet
It is a matter of mindset. Those aren't sharks. They are normal life happenings and shinenigans. When you were a kid, parents protected you from those, you were on a learning curve. Then you were proud of fending for yourself, challenges were welcomed. You took lost little battles as normal development, an opportunity to grow. What changed now? Where is the self faith?

The waters around your ship are as interesting as ever. If something prevents you from seeing joy that is everywhere around you..maybe you need to discover what it could be.

I enjoy your poetic language, btw. Metaphores and imagery.

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Life's not going to improve so better go on a semi high........that's a curious standard to take a decision. I'd say it's the starting point, the logical conclusion is to kill oneself.

What if we apply the standard to other situations? My business is going well, better leave now, later it may go bankrupt. Marriage is happy, better kill myself now before the relationship goes awry. My (future) children are happy and healthy, better exit now before one of them has a tragic experience. The sea is calm, the sun is shinning, better jump overboard before the ship is caught by a storm. I don't know, cannot say what it lacks, but something is missing.
'Half-full' (at least half) is missing. I like your logical argument.

Our logic is faulty though, it doesn't take affective self into the account.

I feel a lot of loneliness in people here. Discipline, self sufficiency and solitude.
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  #51  
Old 22.10.2020, 13:18
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

Axa, my friend's life was not going to get better, and they did not go when they were perfect or on a high, which is why I said semi-high. They were on a downward painful, health related spiral. Most people could have dragged it out for another 10-15 years with bad quality of life. My friend did not want to do that.

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My business is going well, better leave now, later it may go bankrupt.
If there are clear signs that it will go bankrupt and not much can be done to reverse it then yea why not get rid of the business? I am not going through each of your other examples, but you get the idea.

Yes, logically speaking dying today or tomorrow is kind of the same. The extra time that you gained won't exist after your death, you won't exist so those moments and feelings are meaningless. They are meaningful to the people who are left behind, but then they will be gone too Which brings us back to the start of this thread
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  #52  
Old 22.10.2020, 13:29
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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The waters around your ship are as interesting as ever. If something prevents you from seeing joy that is everywhere around you..maybe you need to discover what it could be.

I enjoy your poetic language, btw. Metaphores and imagery.
Well I have plenty of joy in my life, some might say bit too much joy So it is not directly about me but maybe my dark view of the world
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  #53  
Old 22.10.2020, 13:39
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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Well I have plenty of joy in my life, some might say bit too much joy So it is not directly about me but maybe my dark view of the world
Hmmmm...There is dark and dark.

There is realism and kind of positivist nature in all of us, to record stuff without attitude. Even when it's bleak.

Then there is pesimism in all of us, i.e. tough experiences warning us and putting us in a defence mode. Pretty handy, if you ask me. Sceptics see the reality more truthfully.

Then there is general malaise over how detrimental humans turned to be for our ecosystem. We should think about it coz of the young ones and because we can affect it relatively easily.

And then there are dark moments coz all there is is just your own mind and nobody else to smile at you, maybe you need to change it.

And - dreams you had that didn't work out. Also quite easy to turn around. You are somebody you don't want to be. Start thinking like the person you want to become.

There.

Or get really busy to not have time for this. Single parenting gets to do that Volunteering is a great way to feel like we make a difference.

So. No, no sinking ship. It gets better?

What are the joys? Glad for you!
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  #54  
Old 22.10.2020, 13:47
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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Axa, my friend's life was not going to get better, and they did not go when they were perfect or on a high, which is why I said semi-high. They were on a downward painful, health related spiral. Most people could have dragged it out for another 10-15 years with bad quality of life. My friend did not want to do that.

If there are clear signs that it will go bankrupt and not much can be done to reverse it then yea why not get rid of the business? I am not going through each of your other examples, but you get the idea.

Yes, logically speaking dying today or tomorrow is kind of the same. The extra time that you gained won't exist after your death, you won't exist so those moments and feelings are meaningless. They are meaningful to the people who are left behind, but then they will be gone too Which brings us back to the start of this thread

Of course, extra time that I gained won't exist after my death and the moments and feelings will be meaningless. But, why evaluate life after it ended? It's like thinking about if I enjoyed a car 5 years after selling it. Of course it's possible, but kind of dumb. I'll never be able to assess my life after my death, so why worry about this perspective in first place?
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Old 22.10.2020, 13:50
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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Of course, extra time that I gained won't exist after my death and the moments and feelings will be meaningless. But, why evaluate life after it ended? It's like thinking about if I enjoyed a car 5 years after selling it. Of course it's possible, but kind of dumb. I'll never be able to assess my life after my death, so why worry about this perspective in first place?
Because there is such a thing as regret. It is a powerful concept.

It shows us our priorities when we are not sure of them, consciously.

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Old 22.10.2020, 14:06
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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Because there is such a thing thing as regret. It is a powerful concept.

It shows us our priorities when we are not sure of them, consciously.

Yes, regret, that's the right word! But....it's a bit early to start drinking
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Old 22.10.2020, 14:11
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

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Yes, regret, that's the right word! But....it's a bit early to start drinking
Whaaat. Don't. You will see many more sharks!
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Old 22.10.2020, 18:06
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Whaaat. Don't. You will see many more sharks!

Just a joke. Back to point, regret is part of the feelings that disappear with death, so no regret after death. No worries.
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Old 22.10.2020, 19:57
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Re: Is life ultimately a sinking ship?

No worries. No regrets. No apologies.
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Old 22.10.2020, 20:15
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No worries. No regrets. No apologies.
No retreat, baby, no surrender.
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