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  #41  
Old 15.01.2021, 23:29
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Re: Ask a Scientist

…imagine the particle is so tiny then hardware and software are the same...
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  #42  
Old 16.01.2021, 01:08
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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The mantra is: "Cells that fire together wire together". Say we smell strawberry and see red fruit at the same time, the connection between the two sets of neurons detecting these separate signals will be strengthened, so that we learn to associate the two signals. We look for red fruit when we smell strawberry aroma and vice versa.
But that doesn't yet explain consciousness, or even begin to explain it.

It just explains mechanized learning.
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  #43  
Old 16.01.2021, 01:30
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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If the number of neurons signals certain degree of consciousness doesn't it mean certain degree of faith? It has to. I think Flying's point was a scale, so was the dude's he quoted. How can one agree with a scale with neurons (so a relative pov) but an absoluteness of faith, when one needs neurons to be consciouss of one's faith.
You need a large number of neurons to be aware that you have neurons.
You also need a large number of neurons to be aware of faith.
You also need a large number of neurons to understand poetry.
Or to understand what's so cool about an electric guitar.

Not all forms of consciousness are the same.

You can probably teach a computer, attached to a robot, to play the electric guitar. Maybe one day, a computer will be able to analyze what makes good music and then even compose good music by itself. But I doubt that any sufficiently complex computer will ever actually appreciate good music.

See the Turing test. Being able to say and do smart things is in itself no proof of even elementary consciousness.
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  #44  
Old 16.01.2021, 10:08
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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You need a large number of neurons to be aware that you have neurons.
You also need a large number of neurons to be aware of faith.
You also need a large number of neurons to understand poetry.
Or to understand what's so cool about an electric guitar.

Not all forms of consciousness are the same.

You can probably teach a computer, attached to a robot, to play the electric guitar. Maybe one day, a computer will be able to analyze what makes good music and then even compose good music by itself. But I doubt that any sufficiently complex computer will ever actually appreciate good music.

See the Turing test. Being able to say and do smart things is in itself no proof of even elementary consciousness.
Well, I don't understand poetry. What does "understand" mean in that sentence? And "Why an electric guitar is cool" seems a very strange task to set a human brain, never mind a computer.



The definition of conciousness is a good starting place. It can mean many different things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness

My feeling about most of this discussion is: "I want some of whatever they are smoking", but hey, there's a pandemic on, so there's not much else to do.
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  #45  
Old 16.01.2021, 10:46
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

Now that somebody has gone in and rearranged these posts into a new thread, could anybody explain why or how the word metaphysics slipped into the title , as I see no attempt here to discuss metaphysics.
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  #46  
Old 16.01.2021, 10:50
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

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Now that somebody has gone in and rearranged these posts into a new thread, could anybody explain why or how the word metaphysics slipped into the title , as I see no attempt here to discuss metaphysics.
First sentence from Wikipedia: "Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that examines the fundamental nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter, between substance and attribute, and between potentiality and actuality."

Seems fair enough to me. Your post on neurons and poetry seems spot on: mind and matter.
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  #47  
Old 16.01.2021, 10:53
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

Looks like somebody considers Ask a Scientist to be purely stem?

Consciousness is a nice cross-over. The STEM/HUM separation stopped decades ago.
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  #48  
Old 16.01.2021, 11:05
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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I can help with commentary on healing with crystals. Don't know anything about it, but no prob, no one does
Is this new thread about "healing" crystals?

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Looks like somebody considers Ask a Scientist to be purely stem?

Consciousness is a nice cross-over. The STEM/HUM separation stopped decades ago.
I take it some members of the forum threatened with leaving it if non-science stuff continues to be mixed up with philosophical questions...funny.
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  #49  
Old 16.01.2021, 11:19
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

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First sentence from Wikipedia: "Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that examines the fundamental nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter, between substance and attribute, and between potentiality and actuality."

Seems fair enough to me. Your post on neurons and poetry seems spot on: mind and matter.
Have you read the rest of the article too?

I've yet to hear of anybody in metaphysics discuss that sort of stuff. Sounds like the wrong department to me.
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  #50  
Old 16.01.2021, 11:21
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

I'm not so much bothered whether some people might think these things are science or not, but the potential usefulness of the Ask a Scientist thread was being severely diluted by this tangential discussion.

If metaphysics doesn't belong in the title I apologise, but I only know some stuff about real science...

<d,h,rfc>
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  #51  
Old 16.01.2021, 11:24
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

Transdisciplinarity. Interdisciplinarity.The understanding might be generational.

Massacrophysics is a thing! A new thread!
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  #52  
Old 16.01.2021, 11:51
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

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I'm not so much bothered whether some people might think these things are science or not, but the potential usefulness of the Ask a Scientist thread was being severely diluted by this tangential discussion.

If metaphysics doesn't belong in the title I apologise, but I only know some stuff about real science...

<d,h,rfc>
Just wondering.

I only have a PhD from the ETH, but that was a long time ago and there was only science in those days, no "real science". So I'm unfamiliar with the principles of "real science".

So please enlighten us. Am I correct in assuming that the difference between scientists and "real scientists" is that "real scientists" consider that their own ignorance of a topic, or ignorance of the meaning of a word, is a good enough reason to use it inappropriately and to refuse to be corrected?
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  #53  
Old 16.01.2021, 12:18
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

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Just wondering.

I only have a PhD from the ETH, but that was a long time ago and there was only science in those days, no "real science". So I'm unfamiliar with the principles of "real science".

So please enlighten us.
Syntax?

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  #54  
Old 16.01.2021, 12:29
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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…imagine the particle is so tiny then hardware and software are the same...
Can God makes the partikels so smalls that God cannot knows if the partikels is hardwares or zoftwares?

I thinks the answers is both yes and no because it is like the cats Schrödinger.
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  #55  
Old 16.01.2021, 12:52
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Can God makes the partikels so smalls that God cannot knows if the partikels is hardwares or zoftwares?

I thinks the answers is both yes and no because it is like the cats Schrödinger.
I sense high level of scientitude. I measured 5 partikels. I can squeeze 5 more tomorrow, when I am free to repz.
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  #56  
Old 16.01.2021, 14:23
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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I sense high level of scientitude. I measured 5 partikels. I can squeeze 5 more tomorrow, when I am free to repz.
i am today buyink the big bag of braun zugar. I am findinks lots of very small partikels therein. This is the real zience. You like?
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  #57  
Old 16.01.2021, 14:35
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

Hahahaha...Da! I am quite particul about my sugars.

That reminded me a terrible joke. I think I have to pm it.
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  #58  
Old 16.01.2021, 14:44
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

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Hahahaha...Da! I am quite particul about my sugars.

That reminded me a terrible joke. I think I have to pm it.
terrible joke indeed
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  #59  
Old 16.01.2021, 15:42
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

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I'm not so much bothered whether some people might think these things are science or not, but the potential usefulness of the Ask a Scientist thread was being severely diluted by this tangential discussion.

If metaphysics doesn't belong in the title I apologise, but I only know some stuff about real science...

<d,h,rfc>
Does "extentialism" belong in the title?

Not that would make much of a difference, but you may want to fix it...? I don't know.
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  #60  
Old 16.01.2021, 16:36
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Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)

Life confuses me. I mean REALLY CONFUSES me! I always feel like I am inside a virtual game.
I find actions of 99.82% of fellow humans weird
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