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Talk to you later 18.01.2021 13:10

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3264730)
Why? If everything in life in surreal, what is real?

Maybe love? :) Even that is temporary though (breakup/death).

Quote:

There should be something real. Unless......surreal is used as a comfort tool.
What is real anyway? Is real, really real? :p

Quote:


I don't like something or understanding it takes a lot effort, if I call it surreal I don't have to make an effort at all :D
You can make all the effort you want but the "human condition" in my view cannot be truly understood by any human. Greater minds have gone mad due to all the effort they made.

Axa 18.01.2021 13:24

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk to you later (Post 3264742)
Maybe love? :) Even that is temporary though (breakup/death). What is real anyway? Is real, really real? :p

I'm not a philosopher, and I know some scientists make research on how pain is subjective. But, I'm a bit more practical, ever broken a bone? It would be great to listen to a scientist with a broken bone being manipulated by a rescue crew telling them calmly that pain is subjective. I'd also have a good laugh if the scientist claimed pain is only temporary. It is, but sadly pain alters the perception of time when you broke something or lost someone.

Ever felt hunger or thirst to the point of feeling ill? Ever felt the need to return to civilization otherwise nature will kill you? All this talk about real or not real are the privilege of having a full tummy and not having too many worries. Putting too much attention to this kind of question only means we have a good life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk to you later (Post 3264742)
You can make all the effort you want but the "human condition" in my view cannot be truly understood by any human. Greater minds have gone mad due to all the effort they made.

Understand? I'm more worried about surviving and having a good time than understanding. I have no idea why I was born, but it's sure nature, the universe or whatever you name it wants us dead :D

Talk to you later 18.01.2021 14:00

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Axa, I am not a philosopher or a scientist. Yes, I have been in life/death situations and I have seen poverty first hand for many years. I don't disagree 100% or agree 100% with your points :p

Person A dies of starvation at age 15.
Person B dies of gluttony at age 30.

They both end up dead, was the 15 extra years that person B lived really a big deal? I know to the majority it would be a very big deal, but to me if in the end we die anyway then everything in between is basically just time filler.

Which brings us back to my "Life is a sinking ship" thread :D Have a nice day, it is lunchtime for me so time to fill my time and belly with food :p

Polymath 18.01.2021 14:22

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 

MusicChick 19.01.2021 13:54

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk to you later (Post 3264742)
Maybe love? :) Even that is temporary though (breakup/death).

Thankgod that we are creatures who need more than love, then.Like, stimuli, humor, goats..

Quote:

What is real anyway? Is real, really real? :p
Looks like you should ask the scientist. And then ask those who said that they are the real scientists.

flavio 19.01.2021 22:37

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Stewart Lee on Bill Hicks (and other dead comedians)



Quote:

Originally Posted by Polymath (Post 3264778)


amogles 10.02.2021 01:59

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Kite (Post 3264536)
…this thread remember that 25 years ago I have to work during the summers to sustain myself at College, the only place where I can find work was a Baptist Society, where in four summers I built a radio station, two churches and a child's care home, but at that time I was an punk with long hair, earrings, skull rings and always with headphones with continuous Prodigy on...the big 'chiefs' didn't spot me at the beginning, but after some time, one of them who was big in USA with lot of books edited and lots of radio programmes attended, call me for interrogation, I was 17 years at that time, he first asked for headphones to listen and after asked if I attending church...we have an long discussion of four hours, he nearly lost his radio emission...he understood that I am unprogrammable...I still worked next three summers as all societies still need people with different views and good skills...
…now I am looking to EF and understand that this forum are reflecting the today society with all of it censorship...

It takes a lot of courage for people to stand up and admit that they don't know something or are unsure about something.

Insecure people thus hide behind what they perceive as certainties.

Flying Kite 12.02.2021 00:32

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 3274304)
It takes a lot of courage for people to stand up and admit that they don't know something or are unsure about something.

Insecure people thus hide behind what they perceive as certainties.

…The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently...Nietzsche...

greenmount 12.02.2021 10:37

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Kite (Post 3275104)
…The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently...Nietzsche...

For someone who is worried about today "censorship" you too express your opinions quite openly here. :)

I'm not sure craving validation from just everybody and everyone is....healthy. And especially healthy when it comes to public internet fora/social media. Some people will hold you in higher esteem, some not. Why care? You know who you are, no?

Pancakes 12.02.2021 11:00

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk to you later (Post 3264742)

What is real anyway? Is real, really real? :p

Human perception is fundamentally deceptive. Much of what we perceive as being "real" is actually not "real" at all. For example, we perceive color, but color doesn't exist. It's just the way our brains interpret different frequencies of light. We perceive that we're touching something but what we're actually experiencing is electromagnetism.

Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality | Anil Seth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzfo

"Right now, billions of neurons in your brain are working together to generate a conscious experience -- and not just any conscious experience, your experience of the world around you and of yourself within it. How does this happen? According to neuroscientist Anil Seth, we're all hallucinating all the time; when we agree about our hallucinations, we call it "reality.""

Axa 12.02.2021 11:41

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pancakes (Post 3275207)
Human perception is fundamentally deceptive. Much of what we perceive as being "real" is actually not "real" at all. For example, we perceive color, but color doesn't exist. It's just the way our brains interpret different frequencies of light. We perceive that we're touching something but what we're actually experiencing is electromagnetism.

Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality | Anil Seth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzfo

"Right now, billions of neurons in your brain are working together to generate a conscious experience -- and not just any conscious experience, your experience of the world around you and of yourself within it. How does this happen? According to neuroscientist Anil Seth, we're all hallucinating all the time; when we agree about our hallucinations, we call it "reality.""

Liters don't exist, anyway we but beer and wine by the liter. Things don't have to exist to be practical and useful ;)

The truth is a lot of things we enjoy are not really understood. Engineers can manipulate a lot of stuff for our comfort, without ever having a fundamental understanding of what happened. The only justification is that X thing has been done a million times before, so it should work next time.

MusicChick 12.02.2021 19:51

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3275233)
Liters don't exist, anyway we but beer and wine by the liter. Things don't have to exist to be practical and useful ;)

The truth is a lot of things we enjoy are not really understood. Engineers can manipulate a lot of stuff for our comfort, without ever having a fundamental understanding of what happened. The only justification is that X thing has been done a million times before, so it should work next time.

This is interesting.

I think processes might be understood, but this subconscious understanding takes shorter time than conscious grasping, that only becomes apparent later. If it happens.

speakeron 14.02.2021 17:13

Re: Consciousness, metaphysics, extentialism... (Science thread split)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pancakes (Post 3275207)
Human perception is fundamentally deceptive. Much of what we perceive as being "real" is actually not "real" at all. For example, we perceive color, but color doesn't exist. It's just the way our brains interpret different frequencies of light. We perceive that we're touching something but what we're actually experiencing is electromagnetism.

Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality | Anil Seth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzfo

"Right now, billions of neurons in your brain are working together to generate a conscious experience -- and not just any conscious experience, your experience of the world around you and of yourself within it. How does this happen? According to neuroscientist Anil Seth, we're all hallucinating all the time; when we agree about our hallucinations, we call it "reality.""

I would say that way of looking at it has a lot of promise. My view is that our 'view of reality' is being constantly built and refined from a whole slew of memory fragments (table, chair, dog, etc) triggered from sensory input (note how blind people who are given vision after an operation have to 'learn' how to see).

Dreams can tell us a lot about the mechanisms of perception, since these literally are hallucinations. I do a lot of lucid dreaming (where I'm aware that I'm dreaming) and like to closely examine the look and feel of dreams while in them.

My experience is that dreams are not 'stable'. Surfaces tend to 'crawl' (look at the back of your hands - btw, this is similar to the effects of LSD); written text doesn't persist (if you at some text and look away, it's different or just gone); physics doesn't work correctly, if you drop a ball it floats to the ground slowly and running feels like you're on the moon. Colours look strange - things have a 'glow' about them.

Also, dreams tend to work in short scenes (like a movie) - you'll suddenly be in a different location and situation (I often wonder whether our natural acceptance of fast-changing scenes in movies stems from our acceptance of them in dreams).

My theory of what's going on here is that the sensory input that normally stabilizes and configures our view of reality is missing and there's just noise there. Our brain is still trying to build the view of reality and fetches memories from this sensory noise just as it would when awake.

This explains why dreams are 'fuzzy'. When awake, if we see (for example) a chair, this looks nice and solid and persistent because there's a constant flow of sensory information which is confirming the initial memory fetch. In a dream there might be an 'accidental' fetch of a chair memory, but there's nothing to keep confirming that initial fetch, so it soon just blurs and fades away.


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