Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 12.05.2021, 20:27
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,959
Groaned at 795 Times in 444 Posts
Thanked 4,698 Times in 2,048 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

I don't have a great issue with it, this is just another battlefield in the ongoing Culture Wars that is hastening the demise of Western democracy as the dominant world power.

Ultimately the market will decide, and the saying "go woke, go broke" has never been more relevant than in Hollywood today. Look at what's happened to the Oscars since it was turned into a box ticking exercise in diversity. Films win that no one has watched, and sooner or later no will care. The dropping ratings just illustrate this point.

That's the good things about market economies, if something isn't popular, it will eventually fail. That's not to say all of this output is necessarily bad. Although Bridgerton wasn't my cup of tea, my wife loved it, so shows are being made that people will pay for then fair play to them.

The only thing that gets on my goat is the hypocrisy of it all. It's all well and good having a black actress playing Anne Boleyn but then you can't have it both ways. The same people celebrating this casting, but then complaining about "whitewashing" in film, or only having gay actors playing gay roles, need to be wind their necks in!!

Russell T Davies: Straight actors should not play gay characters
https://news.sky.com/story/russell-t...cters-12185652

An Open Letter to Tilda Swinton About Her ‘Doctor Strange’ Whitewashing Email to Margaret Cho
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...winton-958212/
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12.05.2021, 20:28
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 17,065
Groaned at 651 Times in 504 Posts
Thanked 25,873 Times in 10,429 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
I have a dream.

A bad one, but it's still a dream!

Tom
More like a wet dream in your case.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12.05.2021, 20:29
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,516
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,652 Times in 18,690 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
Here's the Heidi movie I was referring to. Maybe not everyone can pick up on the accents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQrZ26kPSpM

I have to admit I saw it on the plane and didn't realise it was a Swiss film dubbed into English. I thought it had been made that way with English actors and I found it absurd.
One of Bruno Ganz's last films.

He also stars in a lot of Hitler memes:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/hitle...nfall-parodies

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12.05.2021, 20:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,910
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,025 Times in 1,178 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
I noticed something else today: While German speakers seriously discuss whether from now on it should be Zuschauer:innen, Zuschauer*innen or ZuschauerInnen and people make (at first rather weird) pauses when using the word Zuschauer_innen, EFers talk about female actors as if there were no word for them yet
In the UK the word "actress" fell out of favour some decades ago, hence not referring to a female actor as an actress in the post.
These are not "new times".
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12.05.2021, 20:42
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,797
Groaned at 434 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 17,895 Times in 10,008 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
In the UK the word "actress" fell out of favour some decades ago, hence not referring to a female actor as an actress in the post.
These are not "new times".
Well, I wouldn't say decades. The last 5-6 years yes. Stupid thing really. Need to come up with a new neutral word as actor just means a man to most people. Why is saying actress is even a problem?
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12.05.2021, 20:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,910
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,025 Times in 1,178 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
Well, I wouldn't say decades. The last 5-6 years yes. Stupid thing really. Need to come up with a new neutral word as actor just means a man to most people. Why is saying actress is even a problem?
You're doing it again.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12.05.2021, 20:54
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,492
Groaned at 114 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 7,245 Times in 3,304 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

In English most jobs are gender neutral with the exception of a few (actress, waitress). So using the “male” form is not really and issue, maybe better in these gender neutral times. I surprised in such gender neutral times that German isn’t making every word neuter (das Arzt, rather than der/die Arzt/Ärztin) and taking gender away from objects - just my wishful thinking
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12.05.2021, 21:02
evop's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Zürich
Posts: 238
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 316 Times in 142 Posts
evop has earned the respect of manyevop has earned the respect of manyevop has earned the respect of many
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
Actually if you are saying that a black woman playing a white woman is a "line that should not be crossed", despite having presumably seen and enjoyed many classic movies during your time as a more venerable member of society, where white people played blacks/asians/arabs (Lawrence of Arabia etc spring to mind?), then it certainly does give you a certain bias against race as well as shows that you are somewhat wilfully ignorant of the times we live in.
From an outsider point of view (I don't care about Anne Boleyn in any way or form and do not regard race to be a defining property of a human, although aware about many instances of that statement would be wrong for others), there is a difference between:

- an artist of one race playing a historical figure of another race, pretending to be that race (using some makeup or other techniques - not talking about how poor or inappropriate those would be - at least they attempted to portray the character accurately),

and

- an artist of one race playing a historical figure of another race, not even attempting to look alike, appropriating the history of said historical person and depriving it with it's racial identity.

The latter is less accurate, therefor may be a larger offense with other parameters taken equal. It would be quite wrong in a historical documentary and definitely problematic for any act pretending to be historically accurate.

On the other hand if it is a fictional act, then such changes can be acceptable - not that it would be the largest historical inaccuracy there anyway. And, if it will somehow let the race issue in the US and other parts of the world to be less problematic in the future, than I say let it be. Not saying that it will actually help, but may be worth trying (strongly suspect, that it is more of a marketing decision for the production company, than any attempt to help the humanity, but still). Everything has a method for the madness, this one seems to me relatively unharmful.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12.05.2021, 21:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,910
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,025 Times in 1,178 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
Now that's a big groan from me.

I understand if someone has difficulty believing the portrayal of a historical character if the actor used is of a completely different colour or race. I've seen Bridgerton and found it interesting but I couldn't quite relate to the historical significance of the characters.

This current trend of casting actors to display diversity is fantastic but for some, it might take away the believability of historic figures. I certainly wouldn't paint anyone with a "you are racist" brush just because they have problems with the plausibility. That's jumping the gun.
I haven't claimed anyone is a racist (I gave an example of what would be) but expressions such as "I'm not a racist but..." that start sentences are very often followed by a racist remark, usually not intended as such and often said out of ignorance (meaning "lack of knowledge or information"). I was hinting that the "I'm all for diversity but..." might end up being such an occasion.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12.05.2021, 21:08
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,843
Groaned at 267 Times in 226 Posts
Thanked 23,539 Times in 9,615 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

I have no problem with it personally but it has to be equal across the board.
The colour of the actor shouldn’t be an issue whether it’s a black actor playing a white person or a white actor playing a black one. Likewise for sexual orientation etc.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 12.05.2021, 21:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,910
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,025 Times in 1,178 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
In English most jobs are gender neutral with the exception of a few (actress, waitress). So using the “male” form is not really and issue, maybe better in these gender neutral times.
I don't quite understand what you're saying. Policeman, Fireman,Postman, Dustman, ... These will now have neutral titles such as domestic waste removal operative.
Quote:
I surprised in such gender neutral times that German isn’t making every word neuter (das Arzt, rather than der/die Arzt/Ärztin) and taking gender away from objects - just my wishful thinking
I think Dutch or Flemish has moved to this already.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 12.05.2021, 21:16
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,269
Groaned at 72 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 5,970 Times in 2,813 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
Ultimately the market will decide, and the saying "go woke, go broke" has never been more relevant than in Hollywood today. Look at what's happened to the Oscars since it was turned into a box ticking exercise in diversity. Films win that no one has watched, and sooner or later no will care. The dropping ratings just illustrate this point.
Indeed, TV is made for an audience. It's not a like a painting that will be bought by 1 person, it's one product to be consumed for millions of people. So, let the market decide.

Just as footnote, the audience median age of traditional TV is 55 YO (data from the US). For video on demand, it's 45 YO. So, productions will gravitate to the tastes of the media age. There are some targeted productions for specific age brackets. Anyway, the farthest oneself founds from the median age, the worst TV will seem to be. https://www.marketingcharts.com/tele...umption-106649
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 12.05.2021, 21:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,910
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,025 Times in 1,178 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

There was a lady in England who "identified as being black" as I think she was brought up "within the black community". She was head of a "people of colour" support group or something for quite some time before someone figured out that she wasn't black at all and then was ostracised.

Family Guy and South Park while being not the most refined of shows, often have very good and insightful commentary about these kinds of issues.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 12.05.2021, 21:35
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,492
Groaned at 114 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 7,245 Times in 3,304 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
I don't quite understand what you're saying. Policeman, Fireman
Official titles Police Officer and Fire Fighter.....
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 12.05.2021, 21:37
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,492
Groaned at 114 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 7,245 Times in 3,304 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
There was a lady in England who "identified as being black" as I think she was brought up "within the black community". She was head of a "people of colour" support group or something for quite some time before someone figured out that she wasn't black at all and then was ostracised.

Family Guy and South Park while being not the most refined of shows, often have very good and insightful commentary about these kinds of issues.
Not heard about the U.K. one, but there have been several similar incidents in the USA. It might sound daft now, but when I was a child a boy identifying as a girl or vice versa sounded daft too, now it’s totally accepted! They must look black enough that people didn’t question them for a long time....
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 12.05.2021, 22:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 11,320
Groaned at 401 Times in 327 Posts
Thanked 17,324 Times in 8,769 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

@OP,


I have only one problem: I wish Meghan Markle was given this part.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 12.05.2021, 22:06
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
Here's the Heidi movie I was referring to. Maybe not everyone can pick up on the accents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQrZ26kPSpM

I have to admit I saw it on the plane and didn't realise it was a Swiss film dubbed into English. I thought it had been made that way with English actors and I found it absurd.
It does sound like a frightfully English story.

Quote:
View Post
In the UK the word "actress" fell out of favour some decades ago, hence not referring to a female actor as an actress in the post.
These are not "new times".
That is what I figured. Which shows how this "war" on politically correct language will also last for ever as every language fights it in a different direction.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 12.05.2021, 22:07
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,516
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,652 Times in 18,690 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Volonte as white:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invest...bove_Suspicion

Volonte as dark:

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 12.05.2021, 22:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,910
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,025 Times in 1,178 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
Official titles Police Officer and Fire Fighter.....
Yes and instead of actor/actress you have the single term "actor".

Consider the Oscars etc. Why should there be best actor and best actress and not simply best actor(m/f)?

I grew up in times advocating racial integration, gender equality and awareness of climate change. I'm 50 now and it seems like these are new things. Seems to many people they are.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 12.05.2021, 22:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,659
Groaned at 405 Times in 223 Posts
Thanked 6,476 Times in 2,975 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New Anne Boleyn TV series - just no

Quote:
View Post
I haven't seen the series, so can't comment on how the story is portrayed in this instance. However, as a general comment on the idea:

My favorite musical is 'Hamilton', where the roles of the founding fathers are played by actors who are Black, hispanic, asian. As Lin Manuel Miranda said "It's the story of American then, told by American now'.

And it works, brilliantly.

Switching gender, race, time, place, etc. in the theatrical arts is not new - it's been going on forever, long before 'wokeness' became a thing. Directors love to do this with Shakespeare, Molière, Sophocles, Verdi, Wagner, Puccini - pretty much all the classics of theater and opera.

In fact, most productions I have seen at the Zürich Opera are set in some time and place other than the original, and often cast against character. And it often works. When it doesn't it's usually because the switch itself seems to have been put center stage, overshadowing the story.

In the arts, historical stories are often subject to artistic license in service of a differing interpretation. After all, it's art. The story part of history can transcend narrow definitions when the ideas are universal.

I'm rather looking forward to seeing this Anne Boleyn.
I love some (very few) recent TV series where todays actual circumstances completely update an old theme - Apple TV’s “Dickinson” as an example. I find the idea compelling and fascinating.

I tried Bridgerton, but - as hard as it is to find good stuff worth streaming - it just didn’t work for me and so I gave up after a couple of episodes. It was popular though, and my daughter thought it was OK.

I’m sure it can be done, to re-create the main characters of history to bring it more within the realms of modern times. And I really don’t care what skin colour the actors have, as long as the production, acting, direction, script etc. is done well enough to captivate my attention, and keep me fascinated about those historical characters such as Anne Boleyn.

But just yet another remake of remakes that have been made over the years, just with different skin colour, is destined to fail with me.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apple Watch Series 4 Watch Series 4 + Charging Pad HBXNE Items for sale 5 02.09.2021 18:17
Anne Kirkbride has died hannah'sauntie General off-topic 3 19.01.2015 23:24
Anne Clark coming to Zurich! sbobwilliams Entertainment & dining 2 15.05.2012 21:26
Anne Clark @Dynamo 11,12 & 13 May sbobwilliams Concerts 0 17.04.2012 09:19
Anne Clark concerts Zurich sbobwilliams Concerts 0 28.01.2012 10:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0