Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14.05.2021, 07:07
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,492
Groaned at 114 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 7,245 Times in 3,304 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

https://www.theguardian.com/film/202...male-voice-dub

I don't know what shocks me more, that this happened at all, or that Universal didn't realise that it was a problem
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14.05.2021, 08:14
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,758
Groaned at 419 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 18,268 Times in 5,658 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Oh man, I didn't even know she was transgender.

Now, what kind of voice would you use for Caitlyn Jenner? Male or female?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14.05.2021, 08:57
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,800
Groaned at 436 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 17,895 Times in 10,008 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Quote:
View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/film/202...male-voice-dub

I don't know what shocks me more, that this happened at all, or that Universal didn't realise that it was a problem
It's not unusual.

"Making changes to characters, their voices and the words they speak when dubbing films and TV shows isn't unusual as a way to make them conform to stereotypes or prejudices in the target markets.

Hollywood's first use of the word "gay" to mean homosexual - by Cary Grant in 1938 comedy Bringing Up Baby - was changed to "mad" for the Italian version.

More recently, gay characters in 1990s Japanese anime series Sailor Moon had their genders swapped for the US through the choice of voice actors and dialogue, meaning same-sex relationships were removed. The uncensored version was finally made available to stream in 2014.

Female characters in shows like Sex and the City and Buffy the Vampire Slayer have been "tamed" by changing their dialogue for countries like Italy and France, according to academics.

However, the German dubbing of 1963 James Bond film From Russia with Love apparently removed sexist and misogynist references in favour of more plot development.

Using a voice actor of a different gender from the character is more common with young male characters, especially in animations - think Bart Simpson, voiced by Nancy Cartwright.

But animations have got in hot water when it comes to people voicing characters of different races. The Simpsons has recast the actors behind some of its black characters, while there was recent controversy when it was revealed that black characters in Disney's Oscar-winning Soul had been dubbed by white actors for some European versions."

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-57099395

And we all know that Darth Vader's voice was dubbed in because Lucas didn't think Prowse's voice was suitable.

"Prowse played the physical form of Darth Vader in the original Star Wars trilogy.[26] Prowse spoke the dialogue during filming, but George Lucas wanted a "darker voice" than Prowse's relatively jovial West Country accent, and had James Earl Jones provide a sinister, more stereotypically malevolent voice for the character. Prowse stated he was originally told he would be seen and heard at the end of Return of the Jedi when Vader's mask was removed. Instead, actor Sebastian Shaw was used."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Prowse#Star_Wars
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14.05.2021, 09:08
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Quote:
View Post
It's not unusual.

"Making changes to characters, their voices and the words they speak when dubbing films and TV shows isn't unusual as a way to make them conform to stereotypes or prejudices in the target markets.

Hollywood's first use of the word "gay" to mean homosexual - by Cary Grant in 1938 comedy Bringing Up Baby - was changed to "mad" for the Italian version.

More recently, gay characters in 1990s Japanese anime series Sailor Moon had their genders swapped for the US through the choice of voice actors and dialogue, meaning same-sex relationships were removed. The uncensored version was finally made available to stream in 2014.

Female characters in shows like Sex and the City and Buffy the Vampire Slayer have been "tamed" by changing their dialogue for countries like Italy and France, according to academics.

However, the German dubbing of 1963 James Bond film From Russia with Love apparently removed sexist and misogynist references in favour of more plot development.

Using a voice actor of a different gender from the character is more common with young male characters, especially in animations - think Bart Simpson, voiced by Nancy Cartwright.

But animations have got in hot water when it comes to people voicing characters of different races. The Simpsons has recast the actors behind some of its black characters, while there was recent controversy when it was revealed that black characters in Disney's Oscar-winning Soul had been dubbed by white actors for some European versions."

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-57099395

And we all know that Darth Vader's voice was dubbed in because Lucas didn't think Prowse's voice was suitable.

"Prowse played the physical form of Darth Vader in the original Star Wars trilogy.[26] Prowse spoke the dialogue during filming, but George Lucas wanted a "darker voice" than Prowse's relatively jovial West Country accent, and had James Earl Jones provide a sinister, more stereotypically malevolent voice for the character. Prowse stated he was originally told he would be seen and heard at the end of Return of the Jedi when Vader's mask was removed. Instead, actor Sebastian Shaw was used."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Prowse#Star_Wars
It really looks like it was done on purpose to fit the level of audience acceptance/understanding in Italy. It was supposed to air yesterday, did it? Was there an outrage?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 14.05.2021, 09:34
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 5,054
Groaned at 274 Times in 213 Posts
Thanked 8,283 Times in 3,652 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Quote:
View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/film/202...male-voice-dub

I don't know what shocks me more, that this happened at all, or that Universal didn't realise that it was a problem
Either Universal employs the most socially unaware people on earth or some smart publicists.

I donít buy all of these accidents, getting something like a movie out the door requires a lot of bodies and I canít believe they are all so dumb that none would raise red flags.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14.05.2021, 09:37
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,516
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,652 Times in 18,690 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Who?

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14.05.2021, 09:42
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Quote:
View Post
..or some smart publicists.
I think you are right..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14.05.2021, 09:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Near Luzern
Posts: 1,861
Groaned at 147 Times in 85 Posts
Thanked 2,602 Times in 1,112 Posts
Patxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

OMG! I am trying to figure out how many ways I can be shocked and offended by this issue.

BTW, I saw the movie and I thought it was well done. Good plot, acting, etc.,..

I am not a transphobe but is it wrong that I just thought that the character in question was just a simple old-fashined drag queen? I seriously thought it was a dude the whole time but didn't give it a second thought. I thought that he was a great actor but i guess that I should not have assumed that she was a he and stopped the movie to do my research.

I guess we need to also be offended that they chose a white person to dub a clearly black-persons role. That is a big no in my mind and if I was Italian watching this movie, my blood would boil! I sincerely hope that they are also rectifying this horrible transgression.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14.05.2021, 10:18
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,492
Groaned at 114 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 7,245 Times in 3,304 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Quote:
View Post
I am not a transphobe but is it wrong that I just thought that the character in question was just a simple old-fashined drag queen? I seriously thought it was a dude the whole time but didn't give it a second thought
What!? I watched the film the other day and had no clue that she was trans! Nothing about the character made me think that she was not cis female. Watching now her voice is a little deep, but still not so much as it’s obvious.

Clip https://youtu.be/nWvYxGzBi3k
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 14.05.2021, 13:45
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,516
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,652 Times in 18,690 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Umm, so if "she" is a she, why isn't her identical twin brother also a she?

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 14.05.2021, 13:56
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,492
Groaned at 114 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 7,245 Times in 3,304 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Quote:
View Post
Umm, so if "she" is a she, why isn't her identical twin brother also a she?

Tom


Georgie Stone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgie_Stone also has a twin brother. What does that have to do with anything?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 14.05.2021, 17:42
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,516
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,652 Times in 18,690 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Quote:
View Post


Georgie Stone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgie_Stone also has a twin brother. What does that have to do with anything?
If someone who is trans has an identical sibling who is not, then CLEARLY they weren't trans at birth, otherwise their sibling would be as well!

So much for the "they were born that way" dogma.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 14.05.2021, 17:49
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,492
Groaned at 114 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 7,245 Times in 3,304 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Quote:
View Post
If someone who is trans has an identical sibling who is not, then CLEARLY they weren't trans at birth, otherwise their sibling would be as well!

So much for the "they were born that way" dogma.

Tom
Just because twins look identical, does not mean they are actually identical

"Identical twins form from the same egg and get the same genetic material from their parents ó but that doesn't mean they're genetically identical by the time they're born.

That's because so-called identical twins pick up genetic mutations in the womb, as their cells weave new strands of DNA and then split into more and more cells. On average, pairs of twins have genomes that differ by an average of 5.2 mutations that occur early in development, according to a new study."

https://www.livescience.com/identica...e-all-dna.html
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 14.05.2021, 18:07
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 3,155
Groaned at 268 Times in 183 Posts
Thanked 6,361 Times in 2,661 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Quote:
View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/film/202...male-voice-dub

I don't know what shocks me more, that this happened at all, or that Universal didn't realise that it was a problem
Negative PR is way better than no PR. I never heard about Ms Cox or that movie before - so it worked.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 15.05.2021, 08:37
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 11,320
Groaned at 401 Times in 327 Posts
Thanked 17,325 Times in 8,770 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Male voice actor dubs Laverne Cox

Quote:
View Post
Negative PR is way better than no PR. I never heard about Ms Cox or that movie before - so it worked.
I suspect she/he was happy to get a role to begin with. I like the folks outraged on her behalf. Dubbing is a whole different compartment in the movie/tv industry. I don't think she was up in her arms for being dubbed in Italian by a male.

Last edited by greenmount; 15.05.2021 at 08:58.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2 male budgies and 1 male finche with bird cage for adoption . kosalan Pet Trading Post 0 30.12.2018 11:33
Life Model / Actor(F) for film Guest Jobs offered 18 24.06.2018 14:09
Actor Alan Rickman has died. hannah'sauntie International affairs/politics 24 15.01.2016 17:10
Who is your favorite actor? Guest General off-topic 57 09.06.2010 08:32
Zurich: Male voice actors required for game-related podcast cas General off-topic 0 25.01.2010 18:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0