Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01.09.2021, 12:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 582
Groaned at 22 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 715 Times in 356 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Diss a celebrity of your choice

Article by Julie Burchill calls out quite a few prominent musicians over time

https://www.weltwoche.ch/ausgaben/20...e-35-2021.html

Personally, Bono and Geldof always stuck in my craw. Anyone you’d like to add? Prefer to bemoan the journalist’s confrontational history?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01.09.2021, 12:36
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Quote:
View Post
Article by Julie Burchill calls out quite a few prominent musicians over time

https://www.weltwoche.ch/ausgaben/20...e-35-2021.html

Personally, Bono and Geldof always stuck in my craw. Anyone you’d like to add? Prefer to bemoan the journalist’s confrontational history?
Indeed. I do not think it is confrontational, but it is hypocritical.

Why should we expect music business to be a different kind of business, just because Julie wants us to? Trying to make it, as a musician, is not greed. It is business (which could mean greed but not automatically). And I am somebody who does something else for living, in order to protect my love and need for making music and art. I would not compromise that. I would not flame a dairy farmer for wanting to make money, he is not supposed to love making cheese, only, but also be solvent.

I think before dissing people who can actually produce something by skills and knowledge, we could start dissing traders, like YouTube, that make cash on their skills.

But an awesome thread, I like this, Soft.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01.09.2021, 12:50
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,441
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 6,232 Times in 2,931 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

I bemoan the journalist's ignorance to tell the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. Come on, English is my 3rd language, I'm specialized in rocks and water, and I can tell the difference.

I also hope the journalist is 15-25 years old because that was about the time most of us realized there was a difference between performance and reality. What the singers sign may just be the expression of desire, wishful thinking, imagination. It's not a literal narration of their Monday morning or Friday evening.

Hell, crime-fiction authors are not criminals, science-fiction writers are neither space travelers nor scientists, actors portray the life of someone else for work.......why musicians are held to a different standard?

The value in artists is in the feelings or thoughts they provoke in people, not in their human lives. Unless they're not breaking something in the penal/criminal code, everything's right.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01.09.2021, 12:59
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 582
Groaned at 22 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 715 Times in 356 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Quote:
View Post
Indeed. I do not think it is confrontational, but it is hypocritical.

Why should we expect music business to be a different kind of business, just because Julie wants us to? Trying to make it, as a musician, is not greed. It is business (which could mean greed but not automatically). And I am somebody who does something else for living, in order to protect my love and need for making music and art. I would not compromise that. I would not flame a dairy farmer for wanting to make money, he is not supposed to love making cheese, only, but also be solvent.

I think before dissing people who can actually produce something by skills and knowledge, we could start dissing traders, like YouTube, that make cash on their skills.

But an awesome thread, I like this, Soft.
As I read the article, the point isn’t that musicians are/can be greedy – they’re humans, like most of us
What is being called out is that some of the very few that make it to the top can be massively hypocritical/patronizing/dumb once they feel secure in their position.
This is certainly not restricted to contemporary rock/pop stars but as their general pose is “rebellion”, it might seem a bit more grating.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01.09.2021, 13:20
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Quote:
View Post
As I read the article, the point isn’t that musicians are/can be greedy – they’re humans, like most of us
What is being called out is that some of the very few that make it to the top can be massively hypocritical/patronizing/dumb once they feel secure in their position.
This is certainly not restricted to contemporary rock/pop stars but as their general pose is “rebellion”, it might seem a bit more grating.
I know, but is like that we all products, innit. Marketing. Apple is really safe and the pose is "you really cannot live without me". I am still resisting. It is really beautiful, though. So is some rebellious or "rebellious" music.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01.09.2021, 19:40
araqyl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zurich, West-side
Posts: 2,221
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,365 Times in 716 Posts
araqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Wow, the person who wrote that article sounds bitter - jealous, much?

You have to remember that being a brilliant musician does not make you a great person - they are people, and sometimes they've become elevated "beyond" the masses in such a way that it changes them - or they start to believe the hype of their marketing team, which would really change a person.

Even a lot of the really famous ones, though, were worked over by their record companies and producers - they're the ones who made the most money, and were not doing the creative work (except, perhaps, in accounting).

Oh, and there are still a few science-fiction writers who are scientists - early on, many/most of them were, and many of their "imaginary" devices were later invented and are now everywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01.09.2021, 21:03
parnell's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 642
Groaned at 219 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 2,165 Times in 1,024 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Sinead O Connor has got to be top of the Irish list. Despite being extremely talented she's not only mad as a box of frogs but an extremely shit person :
After hanging out with fellow legend Shane Macgowan she shopped him to the police for being in possession of an unGodly amount of heroin - all personal consumption
Tore up a picture of the pope , became a priest , lectured the Irish public constantly about spiritual matters , finally became a Muslim and posted the following on Twitter :
Quote:
I'm terribly sorry. What I'm about to say is something so racist I never thought my soul could ever feel it. But truly I never wanna spend time with white people again (if that's what non-muslims are called). Not for one moment, for any reason. They are disgusting.
Finally Islamic Sinead invites out C-list celeb (who is a known recovering alcoholic and acquitted murderer) Ian Bailey for an interview for an Irish newspaper and gets him completely shitfaced at the paper's expense - then writes a terrible hitpiece about how he must have beaten is ex wife...

Bono and Geldof are certainly hypocrites but I've never heard anyone say a word about them being truly nasty to anyone a la Sinead.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01.09.2021, 21:20
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Nothing compares to her?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01.09.2021, 21:49
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,230
Groaned at 294 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 11,133 Times in 4,186 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

I guess that's Sinead O Connor's way of trying to stay relevant and "edgy." I mean, if you're a Muslim now and you don't like "white / non-Muslim" people anymore, so be it. But you don't have to post about it on Twitter just to get attention.

I've never really understood why some people put celebrities and musicians on pedestals and treat them as though they should be worshiped or idolized or held to higher standards than "normal" people. Musicians aren't gods. They're just people who make noise.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01.09.2021, 22:06
terrifisch
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Quote:
View Post
I guess that's Sinead O Connor's way of trying to stay relevant and "edgy." I mean, if you're a Muslim now and you don't like "white / non-Muslim" people anymore, so be it. But you don't have to post about it on Twitter just to get attention.

I've never really understood why some people put celebrities and musicians on pedestals and treat them as though they should be worshiped or idolized or held to higher standards than "normal" people. Musicians aren't gods. They're just people who make noise.
Completely agree and then some. Even worse in my view are Hollywood actors. At least, some musicians have a talent/gift but I don't understand why many bow at the altar to actors/actresses - many of whom have zero intellect and very few have any talent (other than looks)....
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01.09.2021, 22:24
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

I don't know. Music industry is still somewhat relevant re. competence or talent. The journalist does not seem interested by twitch and gamers making cash on millions of viewers watching them snore. Or girls on YouTube unpacking toys from boxes.

I think lot of influencers would be my celebs to diss, they give weird ideas to kids. Unreal world.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02.09.2021, 12:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 582
Groaned at 22 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 715 Times in 356 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Quote:
View Post
I bemoan the journalist's ignorance to tell the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. Come on, English is my 3rd language, I'm specialized in rocks and water, and I can tell the difference. .
Fair play to you – Switzerland has learned the hard way that this question often depends upon jurisdiction


Quote:
View Post
I also hope the journalist is 15-25 years old because that was about the time most of us realized there was a difference between performance and reality. What the singers sign may just be the expression of desire, wishful thinking, imagination. It's not a literal narration of their Monday morning or Friday evening. .
Right you are – what they sing and what they preach are two separate stories

Quote:
View Post
Hell, crime-fiction authors are not criminals, science-fiction writers are neither space travelers nor scientists, actors portray the life of someone else for work.......why musicians are held to a different standard? .
I get your drift about entertainment generally but your comparisons are a bit rough. How many crime-fiction authors do you see on stage ranting about improving prison conditions in Vanuatu and being cheered by millions? How many SciFi writers accusing Elon Musk of one-upmanship?
Why should crime-fiction authors avoid criminal behaviour any more than slightly daft musicians?
IMHO the music industry caters to mainly young people who tend to be a bit taken in by stuff their idols spout.


Quote:
View Post
The value in artists is in the feelings or thoughts they provoke in people, not in their human lives. Unless they're not breaking something in the penal/criminal code, everything's right.
True – hypocrisy hasn’t yet been defined as a criminal offence


.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02.09.2021, 13:12
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,441
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 6,232 Times in 2,931 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Quote:
View Post
I get your drift about entertainment generally but your comparisons are a bit rough. How many crime-fiction authors do you see on stage ranting about improving prison conditions in Vanuatu and being cheered by millions? How many SciFi writers accusing Elon Musk of one-upmanship?
Why should crime-fiction authors avoid criminal behaviour any more than slightly daft musicians?
IMHO the music industry caters to mainly young people who tend to be a bit taken in by stuff their idols spout.
I see, the issue is not the music but insufferable rants. So far, I've only accepted Roger Waters and Manu Chao do that. When I bought the ticket I thought "rants are boring but the musicians accompanying him are damned good. The band and the concert wins". Other musicians with political ambitions are not worth the hassle.

Also, I'm not up-to-date with younger musicians. Do they keep doing stuff live Live Aid/Live 8? Is there a younger Bono? The journalist writes a lot about dead people and I seriously doubt the old will be still alive on 10 years. The only one younger than 60 in the text is Kanye West.

So, are the musicians mentioned in the rant products of their time or something that will always be with us?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02.09.2021, 13:29
VenusC's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zug
Posts: 364
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 566 Times in 230 Posts
VenusC has a reputation beyond reputeVenusC has a reputation beyond reputeVenusC has a reputation beyond reputeVenusC has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

If someone is good at singing and making music, sing and make nice music. I shall listen and enjoy.
If someone makes music, sings AND tells me to swap parties, feel sh&t about myself because I have clean running water, they can just go get bent.

If i am good at knitting I don't get into a metallurgical plant and start telling people to replace arc method for cow shit.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02.09.2021, 15:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 582
Groaned at 22 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 715 Times in 356 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Quote:
View Post
Wow, the person who wrote that article sounds bitter - jealous, much?
I tried to explain that with “confrontational history” - perhaps "history of confrontation" is a slightly better wording

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Burchill

Quote:
View Post
Sinead O Connor has got to be top of the Irish list. Despite being extremely talented she's not only mad as a box of frogs but an extremely shit person
Bono and Geldof are certainly hypocrites but I've never heard anyone say a word about them being truly nasty to anyone a la Sinead.
Never even thought of Sinead because I always discounted her as an extreme nutcase. Taking my own dislikes of Bono & Geldof into account, we have to watch out that the Irish don’t take it personally

Quote:
View Post
Nothing compares to her?
Never understood why people liked listening to her rendition of stuck pigs squealing in the abattoir….
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02.09.2021, 15:40
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Quote:
View Post
True – hypocrisy hasn’t yet been defined as a criminal offence.
I know you meant it hyperbolically. It will never be. Since die-hard fans don't care. They want to get together and sing their stuff. You can only define is as evil if you can quantify what is innocent ignorance and what is premeditated hypocrisy. Nobody will care, though, if there is enough people to buy that particular product, even with fake narrative.

I think my beef is with Madonna who always faked to be an original trendsetter. I don't mind when showbiz people do it if they give credit where credit's due. But they'd lose business so they never own up to it.

I do think that "influencer" and "trendsetter" is a boomer vocabulary.

There is a lot of political narrative these days that I think is only really meant as a marketing scheme to help artists/musicians, etc. sell out faster
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Last edited by MusicChick; 02.09.2021 at 21:11.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02.09.2021, 21:03
parnell's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 642
Groaned at 219 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 2,165 Times in 1,024 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Diss a celebrity of your choice

Quote:
View Post
Never even thought of Sinead because I always discounted her as an extreme nutcase. Taking my own dislikes of Bono & Geldof into account, we have to watch out that the Irish don’t take it personally
Geldof is a media genius - he's come up with a large number of great ideas. He also took in Paula and Michael Hutchence's kid when her parents committed suicide.
Bono is a truly talented guy and I'm a huge fan of the Achtung Baby, Zooropa & Pop trilogy but since then it's been awful and everyone knows that he's a ferocious hypocrite.
I nearly forgot the first thing that Sinead did that made people really question her - in the 90s she said that her parents abused her - which was news to her siblings including her also famous novelist brother...
EDIT: No Irish people unless suffering from absurd levels of insecurity would be worried about calling out fakes and hypocrites who happen to be Irish - they should and do laud it - nothing worse than phonies.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Choice... Guest General off-topic 24 25.10.2015 19:18
The celebrity family photo album! jakmender Finance/banking/taxation 1 15.09.2013 13:25
Celebrity Big Brother 2011 Upthehatters2008 General off-topic 2 08.08.2011 19:35
I'm a celebrity get me out of here... Upthehatters2008 General off-topic 5 15.11.2010 09:40
celebrity mating PlantHead General off-topic 6 15.02.2008 17:41


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0