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  #301  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:02
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Re: Religious Musings

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."

This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:

"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]

totally against trinity

isnt it

some one should write a new version of bible and delete these verses or change them

btw how many versions of bible do exist ?
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  #302  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:06
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Re: Religious Musings

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Evolution isn't debatable really, there is no denying that lifeforms change and adapt. Pig flu just as a recent example of a morphed organism. And that is the core idea which Christians (the more stupid ones of course, not all oft hem) disagree with. They think God created all living beings at once, and in perfection. And if the Quran sais that all life comes from water.. well then surely they cannot deny that there weren't a whole lot of hairy monkeys swimming in the water...so therefore they believe in evolution.
To correct you Quran says that all living forms come from water, which means every living being have water in it and which is true because our body has 70% of water in it. Water is an essential element of all living beings.
The idea of start of human race is somewhat similar to christanity. Quran says we all are produced from a single pair of male and female (Adam and eye). From them all the progeny of mankind comes.
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  #303  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:08
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Re: Religious Musings

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Also if Jesus was Son of God... then why do Luke and Mathew (if I remember correctly) give 2 different geneologies of Jesus... linking him to Humans... and both Geneologies of Jesus have not even 1 name common?
I don't know. A person's geneology can be traced through two parents. There was Mary, and his legal father Joseph. Some believe Luke traces his lineage through Joseph, while Matthew traces his lineage through Mary. I believe the point was to establish Jesus' lineage to David. It's not really the essential part of the Gospel as far as I'm concerned. To be honest, I've normally skipped that part.
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  #304  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:10
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Re: Religious Musings

Not quite correct no, a 5-limbed puppy is only one form of mutation. Mutation is simply a change in the genetic code that can, but doesn't have to passed on to offspring.

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Every generation an organism inherits features (called traits) from its parents through genes. Changes (called mutations) in the genes can produce a new trait in the offspring of an organism. Traits which help the organism survive and reproduce are more likely to accumulate in a population than traits that are unfavorable, a process called natural selection.
Mutation and evolution cannot be separated from each other, and both lead to the same conclusion. Living beings do change, and small changes (mutation) in 1 generation leads to big changes (evolution) in the long term. But you still haven't adressed that seeming paradox: How can Muslims believe that all life comes from the water when they dont' believe in evolution ? And yes of course, evolution is a scientific theory, however most people don't grasp that a commonly accepted scientific theory isn't just "what some people think" and therefore just an opinion.
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  #305  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:11
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Re: Religious Musings

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To correct you Quran says that all living forms come from water, which means every living being have water in it and which is true because our body has 70% of water in it. Water is an essential element of all living beings.
The idea of start of human race is somewhat similar to christanity. Quran says we all are produced from a single pair of male and female (Adam and eye). From them all the progeny of mankind comes.
Oh ok.. bit of a dissapointment as I followed Dervaishs interpretation.
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  #306  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:12
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Re: Religious Musings

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I don't know. A person's geneology can be traced through two parents. There was Mary, and his legal father Joseph. Some believe Luke traces his lineage through Joseph, while Matthew traces his lineage through Mary. I believe the point was to establish Jesus' lineage to David. It's not really the essential part of the Gospel as far as I'm concerned. To be honest, I've normally skipped that part.
You could have looked in Quran, where you could have easily traced Mary's lineage to David easily
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  #307  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:14
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Re: Religious Musings

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can anyone try to expalin this

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]

then how can be jesus god

a complete contradiction

will you put some light on this subject ?
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  #308  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:18
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Re: Religious Musings

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Not quite correct no, a 5-limbed puppy is only one form of mutation. Mutation is simply a change in the genetic code that can, but doesn't have to passed on to offspring.



Mutation and evolution cannot be separated from each other, and both lead to the same conclusion. Living beings do change, and small changes (mutation) in 1 generation leads to big changes (evolution) in the long term. But you still haven't adressed that seeming paradox: How can Muslims believe that all life comes from the water when they dont' believe in evolution ? And yes of course, evolution is a scientific theory, however most people don't grasp that a commonly accepted scientific theory isn't just "what some people think" and therefore just an opinion.
Like you said Mutation does not pass onto the offspring, hence cannot lead to Evolution.

Water forms the basis of al life, but each species has existed in FULLY developed Form... as it was Created on day 1 and will be like that till end of days.

"Theories" are good starting point for Research but they do not form Authority until proven with Emperical/Scietific evidence.

Also, Darwin was a Believer in God himself.
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  #309  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:20
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Re: Religious Musings

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"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."

This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:

"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]

totally against trinity

isnt it

some one should write a new version of bible and delete these verses or change them

btw how many versions of bible do exist ?


Not so fast Buddy.

God also has the name of Elohim, which is a plural name. If you notice in various places in Genesis, God refers to himself in plural form:

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.



Which leads me to wonder..... This Dervaish described earlier? Who/What is the parakleitos?

You see.... I told you we don't worship the same God.
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  #310  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:23
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Re: Religious Musings

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Like you said Mutation does not pass onto the offspring, hence cannot lead to Evolution.

Water forms the basis of al life, but each species has existed in FULLY developed Form... as it was Created on day 1 and will be like that till end of days.

"Theories" are good starting point for Research but they do not form Authority until proven with Emperical/Scietific evidence.

Also, Darwin was a Believer in God himself.
I did most certainly not say that! It's a well proven fact that mutation can indeed be inherited, it's just that not all mutation does. There is absolutely not the slightest doubt in the scientific community that mutation does get inherited. Please read up on the subject. Theories are not starting points for research, a hypothesis would be a starting point... A theory does have to be backed up with loads of empirical and scientific evidence. And there is so much of it that you can start to look everywhere. I am quite fond of the Jesus on a dinosaur-pictures but let's be honest, does it get any more ridiculous ?
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  #311  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:25
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Re: Religious Musings

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Not so fast Buddy.

God also has the name of Elohim, which is a plural name. If you notice in various places in Genesis, God refers to himself in plural form:

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.



Which leads me to wonder..... This Dervaish described earlier? Who/What is the parakleitos?

You see.... I told you we don't worship the same God.
Even in Quran, God refers to himself as WE, plural...

In my country anyone and everyone, refers to one's self as WE

In some Eastern societies Plural in a address is a mark of respect and authority
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  #312  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:26
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Re: Religious Musings

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You could have looked in Quran, where you could have easily traced Mary's lineage to David easily

Though I would be suspiscious of who wrote it, and if they are even talking about the same Mary and Joseph.
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  #313  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:29
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Re: Religious Musings

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Also if Jesus was Son of God... then why do Luke and Mathew (if I remember correctly) give 2 different geneologies of Jesus... linking him to Humans... and both Geneologies of Jesus have not even 1 name common?
The reason genealogies are included at all is that it's vitally important to Christianity that the Son of God became human, not some human-shaped alien. Fully God, fully human.

The reason there are two of them, and that they differ, is that he had two earthly parents (one genetically, and her husband who raised him.) Humans would have counted Jesus - did count him, during his life - as Joseph's son, and Joseph was of the line of David, which mattered for the fulfillment of various prophecies. So Matthew records Joseph's descent from David, acknowledging the virgin birth by finishing up with Joseph as "the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus."

Jesus was not genetically Joseph's son at all though, and so Luke, when he wants to give a patrilineal genealogy, has to start from Jesus's first male ancestor: Mary's father, Eli. And from there he takes it all the way back to Adam (the point is to substantiate the "fully human" bit, remember?) instead of stopping with David as Matthew's account does.

There are other explanations advanced, e.g. that both accounts are of Joseph's genealogy, one by blood and one by adoption, but this is the most straightforward.

(I daresay the whole thing does look a bit fiddly to anyone who doesn't believe it - all religions do once you get into the details - but that's the explanation, if you're interested.)
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  #314  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:30
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Re: Religious Musings

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Not so fast Buddy.

God also has the name of Elohim, which is a plural name. If you notice in various places in Genesis, God refers to himself in plural form:

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.



Which leads me to wonder..... This Dervaish described earlier? Who/What is the parakleitos?

You see.... I told you we don't worship the same God.
The queen of england say WE though she is only one. That's the problem with the translated text you don't know if what you read is correct. Could be completely opposite to the actual meaning. That is why i said the original Hebrew is nowhere to be found and the Greek is probably not as close to the original.
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  #315  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:30
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Re: Religious Musings

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Even in Quran, God refers to himself as WE, plural...

In my country anyone and everyone, refers to one's self as WE

In some Eastern societies Plural in a address is a mark of respect and authority

yeah exactly

thats a royal US mean me

its also in german

learning german these days :P
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  #316  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:31
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Re: Religious Musings

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"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."

This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:

"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]

totally against trinity

isnt it
Don't make me get my shamrocks out.
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  #317  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:33
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Re: Religious Musings

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Even in Quran, God refers to himself as WE, plural...

In my country anyone and everyone, refers to one's self as WE

In some Eastern societies Plural in a address is a mark of respect and authority

how abt this one

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]



is jesus god or relying on god ?
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  #318  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:33
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Re: Religious Musings

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I did most certainly not say that! It's a well proven fact that mutation can indeed be inherited, it's just that not all mutation does. There is absolutely not the slightest doubt in the scientific community that mutation does get inherited. Please read up on the subject. Theories are not starting points for research, a hypothesis would be a starting point... A theory does have to be backed up with loads of empirical and scientific evidence. And there is so much of it that you can start to look everywhere. I am quite fond of the Jesus on a dinosaur-pictures but let's be honest, does it get any more ridiculous ?
A Hypothesis is a scientific statement which is then tested Mathemetically.

Theory does nto have to be backed... but then it stays a Theory, doesn not constitute a Scientifc Fact or Law.

Mutations always cause Negative effects, nothingpositive or long lasting STILL mutations do not bring abut change in SPECIES... i.e. dog wil still be a dog, mutation will not turn it into a cat.
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  #319  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:34
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Re: Religious Musings

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how is this related to ISLAM ?
It's related because the instigator of it, Karzai, the Afghan President, brought it in to appease the Shia sect of Islam in his country to the upcoming elections. In their very conservative approach this is what they wanted.
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  #320  
Old 26.08.2009, 16:36
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Re: Religious Musings

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Though I would be suspiscious of who wrote it, and if they are even talking about the same Mary and Joseph.
Doesnt mention Joseph the Carpenter, but Yes.. the Virgin Mary, the Mother of Jesus... daughter of Zakariya? (Im not sure)
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