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  #401  
Old 26.08.2009, 18:57
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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Statistics prove this wrong. A large proportion of Scientists believe in God.

Really? I don't picture that, maybe it's just me.


without digging any deepder , at least in America,

"Whereas 90% of the general population has a distinct belief in a personal god and a life after death, only 40% of scientists on the B.S. level favor this belief in religion and merely 10 % of those who are considered 'eminent' scientists believe in a personal god or in an afterlife."



http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Inte...20religion.htm
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  #402  
Old 26.08.2009, 18:58
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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Statistics prove this wrong. A large proportion of Scientists believe in God.
Exactly, over 40% in fact (including me I guess ).
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  #403  
Old 26.08.2009, 19:03
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

Science degree does not get rid of childhood baggage automatically
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  #404  
Old 26.08.2009, 19:03
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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"Whereas 90% of the general population has a distinct belief in a personal god and a life after death, only 40% of scientists on the B.S. level favor this belief in religion and merely 10 % of those who are considered 'eminent' scientists believe in a personal god or in an afterlife."

Only proves that atheists in the Science industrial complex can be quite self-congratulatory and back scratching.
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  #405  
Old 26.08.2009, 19:04
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Re: Religious Musings

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I wish the church shared the same view. Is that a lightning conductor I see being fixed?
That is wise of them to direct the energy of the lightning to the ground.

Thank God for wisdom.
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  #406  
Old 26.08.2009, 19:07
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

Let god come and speak his mind instead of hidding behid his minions
Show me the money!!!!!!

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  #407  
Old 26.08.2009, 19:09
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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Let god come and speak his mind instead of hidding behid his minions
Show me the money!!!!!!

When the deaf can't hear, you use sign language.
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  #408  
Old 26.08.2009, 19:12
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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When the deaf can't hear, you use sign language.
So god is deaf? Deaf and dumb? Boy that is a deadly combination
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  #409  
Old 26.08.2009, 19:25
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Re: Religious Musings

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Let me put this into some historic perspective for you.


The early church identified Paraclete as the Holy Spirit (1 John 2:1; Matt 3:10-12; Luke 3:9-17; Acts 1:5, 1:8, 2:4, 2:38; ). Christians have ALWAYS used Paraclete as a title for the Spirit of God.

A couple of hundred of years later, comes Islam. They then insist that the Paraclete we refer to is not in fact the Holy Spirit, but your man there. They insist on the basis of their OWN writings.

Now tell me. Do you really think Christians will subscribe to that based on your insistence? No matter how hard you laugh? No. They'll just consider you to be a fool.

By the way, is this method of attempting to proselytize part of Ramadan? Because, if so, I think you better get yourself something to eat. You're getting hysterical.

after all the miracles of the book the same man brought i will be a fool if i still ignore him

and i am not trying to convert you, because we know its not the eyes are blind its the heart that goes blind

how many versions of bible you have, how many people compiled this book, by knowing that it is not in its original form you are still keep insisting its reliability

there are many errors in bible that i have had not mentioned yet, we also believe in bible and we respect torah alot for us its a religious book and no one is denying chritian faith here and i love jesus and moses same like muhammed s,w,s

how will you recognise your Paraclete ?

the same way jews rejected jesus you are rejecting muhammed s,w,s

quran remains in its original form since 1400 years and it will remain its form till the end of this world, no one dare to change it and cannot change it

what is the credibility of bible ?

i mean what version of bible :P
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Old 26.08.2009, 19:31
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Re: Religious Musings

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Let me put this into some historic perspective for you.


The early church identified Paraclete as the Holy Spirit (1 John 2:1; Matt 3:10-12; Luke 3:9-17; Acts 1:5, 1:8, 2:4, 2:38; ). Christians have ALWAYS used Paraclete as a title for the Spirit of God.

A couple of hundred of years later, comes Islam. They then insist that the Paraclete we refer to is not in fact the Holy Spirit, but your man there. They insist on the basis of their OWN writings.

Now tell me. Do you really think Christians will subscribe to that based on your insistence? No matter how hard you laugh? No. They'll just consider you to be a fool.

By the way, is this method of attempting to proselytize part of Ramadan? Because, if so, I think you better get yourself something to eat. You're getting hysterical.

after all the miracles of the book the same man brought i will be a fool if i still ignore him

and i am not trying to convert you, because we know its not the eyes are blind its the heart that goes blind

how many versions of bible you have, how many people compiled this book, by knowing that it is not in its original form you are still keep insisting its reliability

there are many errors in bible that i have had not mentioned yet, we also believe in bible and we respect torah alot for us its a religious book and no one is denying chritian faith here and i love jesus and moses same like muhammed s,w,s

how will you recognise your Paraclete ?

the same way jews rejected jesus you are rejecting muhammed s,w,s

quran remains in its original form since 1400 years and it will remain its form till the end of this world, no one dare to change it and cannot change it

what is the credibility of bible ?

i mean what version of bible :P
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  #411  
Old 26.08.2009, 19:39
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Re: Religious Musings

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I will have to search and copy and paste bits to do that...just few examples from Chapter 21, Al Anbiya


30. Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (Big Bang Theory, and origin of life in water)
31. And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance. (Geology, mountains help balance the Earth)
32. And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)! (Ozone layer around?)33. It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course. (Planets moving in circles, Astronomy)
While I can see that some of the verses you quote can be interpreted to support your claims, I very much doubt that the fathers of e.g. Big Bang theory had them in mind (or even knowledge of them) when they worked on that theory. If they didn't, you cannot say the theory has a link to the Quran.

Can someone please explain me how mountains balance the Earth, btw? I honestly don't get it.
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  #412  
Old 26.08.2009, 19:57
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Re: Religious Musings

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A Hypothesis is a scientific statement which is then tested Mathemetically.

Theory does nto have to be backed... but then it stays a Theory, doesn not constitute a Scientifc Fact or Law.

Mutations always cause Negative effects, nothingpositive or long lasting STILL mutations do not bring abut change in SPECIES... i.e. dog wil still be a dog, mutation will not turn it into a cat.
I am sorry, but you are wrong. Wrong in what you write about scientific concepts, and wrong about mutation.

Rats mutating to tolerate ratpoison, bugs becoming resistant to antibiotics - that is evolution based on mutation for you.

Where did you get the idea that mutations always are negative?
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  #413  
Old 26.08.2009, 21:29
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Re: Religious Musings

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Rats mutating to tolerate ratpoison, bugs becoming resistant to antibiotics - that is evolution based on mutation for you.
I'm not sure that qualifies as mutation. It's more like adaptation. You lift weights, you grow muscles.

There is plenty of evidence of species adapting to their envirnoment. What is grossly missing are the missing links. The intermediate steps from one species to the next. There are some examples that appear to exhibit this, but they are refutable. For me, this is the biggest hole in the theory of evolution. There are NO transitional species.

Whether or not this occurs has little bearing on faith. For a person with a fundamentalist upbringing, it might. Darwin is an example. Seeing that he could not reconcile Genesis with his findings, he start to doubt every word and begins to consider himself agnostic. For less fundamentalist Christians, this is not the central issue in their lives.

The key part in scripture in regards evolution is the phrase "after its own kind". Fishes produce fishes, and birds produce birds. That was the state of creation before the fall. But then the fall is also considered to have offset the perfect balance of creation.

Some of this was pointed out in an exhaustive thread on evolution on this forum.
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  #414  
Old 26.08.2009, 21:36
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Re: Religious Musings

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There are NO transitional species.
Rubbish, there are only transitional species. All species are in a potential state of transition.
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  #415  
Old 26.08.2009, 21:40
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Re: Religious Musings

With evolution,it seems many people expect transitional species to be things that are between one existing species, and another existing species, where as in fact, they come from common ancestors.

So they'll argue there's no transitional species between monkey and man, where in fact, man and monkey share a common ancestor, and the lines diverged.
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Old 26.08.2009, 21:42
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Re: Religious Musings

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how many versions of bible you have, how many people compiled this book, by knowing that it is not in its original form you are still keep insisting its reliability
There is a site that has about 40 versions of the Bible in various languages:
http://www.biblegateway.com/


I don't know if you were paying attention to the conversation, or simply read what agreed with you. I assume you are having a conversation with yourself. But I'll repeat it again:

The various translations of the Bible are derived from Greek manuscripts that predate Islamic scripture. Unlike the Injil, these manuscripts exist. For any clarification about what a particular passage says, it is verifiable through the Greek version. It is even available online:
http://www.greekbible.com/


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there are many errors in bible that i have had not mentioned yet, we also believe in bible and we respect torah alot for us its a religious book and no one is denying chritian faith here and i love jesus and moses same like muhammed s,w,s
Is your faith strong enough to hear about errors in the Quran?


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how will you recognise your Paraclete ?
He lives within us.


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the same way jews rejected jesus you are rejecting muhammed s,w,s
I don't reject Muhammed. I think he was a heroic man. But I do reject is the notion that the religion founded around him is the religion we are required to adapt. We weren't called to observe ritualistic practices and tradition to attain enough credits to earn God's grace. God's grace cannot be bought with any price.


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what is the credibility of bible ?

i mean what version of bible :P
In one sentence, you say you also believe the Bible. Then after a few line breaks you question its credibility. Dear Sir, I think you are getting quite confused. May I suggest you think deeply about what you say before you say it?
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  #417  
Old 26.08.2009, 21:45
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Re: Religious Musings

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With evolution,it seems many people expect transitional species to be things that are between one existing species, and another existing species, where as in fact, they come from common ancestors.

So they'll argue there's no transitional species between monkey and man, where in fact, man and monkey share a common ancestor, and the lines diverged.

That is EXACTLY the point of disagreement. This is a theory that has yet to be scientifically proven, yet you embrace it as fact.

It's not a point of convincing someone otherwise. At this point, I have to ask; whare is the science?
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  #418  
Old 26.08.2009, 21:54
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Re: Religious Musings

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That is EXACTLY the point of disagreement. This is a theory that has yet to be scientifically proven, yet you embrace it as fact.

It's not a point of convincing someone otherwise. At this point, I have to ask; whare is the science?
genome mapping and the fusion of 2 pairs of chromosomes.

So far, again without going to the thousands of creationist sites. I have not come out with a peer review refutation of transitional fossils existing today.

The argument amongst biologists right now is : what is the most important factor in evolution? not that evolution is not a fact or an accurate theory.

Dawkins explains this on one of his videos. HashBrown pointed to dawkins, who has a video explaining this in simple and layman terms.
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  #419  
Old 26.08.2009, 21:55
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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Oh, come on. You made the claim, now back it or retract it. It's the honorable thing to do.
Ha ha. I stated my points to which you've had no intelligent response. As I said before, I am not going to repeat myself. And you've both taken the debate to the level of a 5 year old, which I fear is your understanding of science. Regardless, as I stated I went OUTSIDE for some exercise, wine, and merriment.

Re Jesus/Rome/Bible, I made my humourous point, which you completely missed; at least the Muslim got it.

When you've got something intelligent to say, I will respond.

And I must say, what is this crap about negative mutations?!?! It makes no sense, not even in English. If you understand the whole point of evolution and the debate of design vs evolution, then it is that there is no postive/negative/whatever judgements on a mutation. It either propagates due to survival or due to competitive advantage or it doesn't.

Again, I suggest you read Dawkins to learn about evolution first. As for transitional species, they exist plain for us to see in the fossil record. And in experiements performed in the lab, we see them all the time for 'simpler' organisms that we can play around with. As for our day-to-day lives, I will say ONE LAST TIME, we live in a very short time scale compared to the age of the planet and that which evolution has occurred, so we obviously won't see species appearing and disappearing at the zoo.

As for the discussion of physics, am happy to do so anytime, as that is my expertise.

I always find it amusing that religious extremists/literalists only choose evolution to fight against, but not the big bang, cosmic evolution, the melting of ice, how birds fly. They all are science. Why is that. Does it hurt your pride that you aren't so special?

Come to Talacker night and am happy to argue in person. Do your reading beforehand. We can argue science as much as you want. There is no need argueing religion as it can't be by definition. I will bring with me my personal experience and the experience of others that can be reproduced.
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  #420  
Old 26.08.2009, 21:57
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Re: Religious Musings

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That is EXACTLY the point of disagreement. This is a theory that has yet to be scientifically proven, yet you embrace it as fact.

It's not a point of convincing someone otherwise. At this point, I have to ask; whare is the science?
Deliberate misrepresentation of the word theory again.

It's is proven beyond reasonable doubt, yes it's possible that perhaps god just made it look like that's how it works, it's possible that it's all an atheist conspiracy. it's possible aliens interfered. But you're clutching at straws.

What is the point of disagreement? That you don't properly understand the scientific use of the word theory? or the theory of evolution?
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