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  #641  
Old 28.08.2009, 15:31
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Re: Religious Musings

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Children raised by wolves? I like your range Hoppy.

.
No. Feral dogs - what does it mean to be human?

Love is a instinct that we all have, even animals. These feral dogs had nothing to gain by taking Roxanna in, giving her warmth and comfort:

I call that instinct God, but I have no right to tell others what to call it. Ultimately it is not important who names it, whoever names it can't own it. You can only wonder at its power and just be so grateful that it exists, whatever unlikely quarter it comes from.

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  #642  
Old 28.08.2009, 15:37
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Re: Religious Musings

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I am simply not doing this. I dont care in this example if leaders are causing death everywhere, that is not the argument. the point being made is that Dervaish had stated that no one kills in the name of religion and this is simply not true. Saying "oh but what about x" is irrelevant. That is not the argument here.

If you are able to contribute then I look forward to your response. However if you are just going to throw insults around as Phos has politely pointed out then please refrain from replying.

Thanks
errmm... actually I DID say that people DO use Religion as pretext or justification to kill or committ other crimes.

People without a religion ALSO kill.. Soviet Revolution?

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  #643  
Old 28.08.2009, 16:21
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Re: Religious Musings

Just a final few thoughts on this before I too leave it.

Only the religious say man is corrupt. They decided this based on the morality supposedly given to us by god.

They go on and on about this corruption of ours, and how we must attone for our sins, that without them, we will never be saved. Without their guiding light we will set ourselves on the path to destruction.

Yet, religion also offers us freedom from morality, we are all sinners after all, religion gives us more power to be immoral, it indulges our immorality and sells forgiveness.

I would say it is religion that is corrupt, even though some here will claim they do not represent religion, the teachings are indistinguishable. You are a sinner, follow my example, or you will not be saved.

I see relative morality mentioned, religion could be seen as a symptom of this existence, when one has done terrible things to survive, they may go looking for forgiveness. Religion wouldn't keep your morals any more constant in terrible situations, in fact, those most assured of their own salvation would be the first to break the moral code to survive, thinking that they'll be forgiven.
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  #644  
Old 28.08.2009, 16:24
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Re: Religious Musings

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I see relative morality mentioned, religion could be seen as a symptom of this existence, when one has done terrible things to survive, they may go looking for forgiveness. Religion wouldn't keep your morals any more constant in terrible situations, in fact, those most assured of their own salvation would be the first to break the moral code to survive, thinking that they'll be forgiven.
That is most often the case!
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  #645  
Old 28.08.2009, 16:48
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Just a final few thoughts on this before I too leave it.

Only the religious say man is corrupt. They decided this based on the morality supposedly given to us by god.

They go on and on about this corruption of ours, and how we must attone for our sins, that without them, we will never be saved. Without their guiding light we will set ourselves on the path to destruction.

Yet, religion also offers us freedom from morality, we are all sinners after all, religion gives us more power to be immoral, it indulges our immorality and sells forgiveness.

I would say it is religion that is corrupt, even though some here will claim they do not represent religion, the teachings are indistinguishable. You are a sinner, follow my example, or you will not be saved.

I see relative morality mentioned, religion could be seen as a symptom of this existence, when one has done terrible things to survive, they may go looking for forgiveness. Religion wouldn't keep your morals any more constant in terrible situations, in fact, those most assured of their own salvation would be the first to break the moral code to survive, thinking that they'll be forgiven.

Actually agree with some of this. Thanks.

I actually don't think man has the capability to strictly adhere to a moral code. He will in some way or form fail to do so. This attests even more so to man's imperfections.

The laws are set to give man an idea of perfection, and in so doing, also show a man how far he is from perfection. This isn't easy for man. It's painful to see how far short he is, and I do understand why some throw in the towel.
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  #646  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:02
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Re: Religious Musings

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....This attests even more so to man's imperfections.
......or to god's imperfection for "creating" such a man?

So which one of you was distributing Jesus leaflets in Zurich city few hours ago? I straight away thought about this thread
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  #647  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:05
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Re: Religious Musings

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Actually agree with some of this. Thanks.

I actually don't think man has the capability to strictly adhere to a moral code. He will in some way or form fail to do so. This attests even more so to man's imperfections.

The laws are set to give man an idea of perfection, and in so doing, also show a man how far he is from perfection. This isn't easy for man. It's painful to see how far short he is, and I do understand why some throw in the towel.
Morality gets a different perspective when you have not eaten food for 3 days and then you passby a house who are throwing away "leftovers" which could feed half a dozen people..

Or when you've lost your family and any source of income in some accident or whatever in a country with no State welfare fund...

Such times really test a Man's metal, otherwise its easy to argue Religion Vs Evolution or Do we or Do we NOT need God... sitting, fully fed, in the comfort of an air conditioned lounge, having a steady job and some investments.

I know God, coz I believe in Universal Justice, not just Sin and Atonement but the vast differences in lives of people.

With that perspective, there are much more people who are held back by Religion then fractional few who actually do committ atrocities in the name of Religion.
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  #648  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:08
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......or to god's imperfection for "creating" such a man?

So which one of you was distributing Jesus leaflets in Zurich city few hours ago? I straight away thought about this thread

God provided man free-will of the same nature God has. God sought relationship, chosen by will, not by compulsion. Had he wanted obedience by compulsion, he would have made robots.

Ah, glad to hear someone cared enough to do that.
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  #649  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:12
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I know God, coz I believe in Universal Justice, not just Sin and Atonement but the vast differences in lives of people.

With that perspective, there are much more people who are held back by Religion then fractional few who actually do committ atrocities in the name of Religion.
I agree. The thing about religion is that it can become an act of habit and compulsion rather than true love and worship. People lose sight of God when they practice religion for its own sake.
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  #650  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:32
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Re: Religious Musings

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God provided man free-will of the same nature God has. God sought relationship, chosen by will, not by compulsion. Had he wanted obedience by compulsion, he would have made robots.
You are telling me all this but the thing is that I don't trust you Tell your god to come to my flat for some biscuits and to talk directly with me.
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  #651  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:43
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You are telling me all this but the thing is that I don't trust you Tell your god to come to my flat for some biscuits and to talk directly with me.
When its about Money Business/Job... You would probably go to the other end of the World, but expect God to come to you
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  #652  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:51
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When its about Money Business/Job... You would probably go to the other end of the World, but expect God to come to you
Actually I don't move for anyone Still to be fair I will pay him a visit if you provide me his address
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  #653  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:53
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Actually I don't move for anyone Still to be fair I will pay him a visit if you provide me his address
Hahaha... we might provide you the address but then you will ask for Transportation
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  #654  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:56
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Actually I don't move for anyone Still to be fair I will pay him a visit if you provide me his address

just try to find him inside you

he lives within us
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  #655  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:57
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Hahaha... we might provide you the address but then you will ask for Transportation
1:0 to me then
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  #656  
Old 28.08.2009, 17:58
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Re: Religious Musings

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just try to find him inside you

he lives within us
Again just like Phos I don't trust you Tell god to come out and stop stealing food from my stomach.
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  #657  
Old 28.08.2009, 18:03
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Re: Religious Musings

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Again just like Phos I don't trust you Tell god to come out and stop stealing food from my stomach.
God created Us in His image, but the problem began when We started Creating God in Our images
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  #658  
Old 28.08.2009, 18:07
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Again just like Phos I don't trust you Tell god to come out and stop stealing food from my stomach.
u r really lord of darkness and darkness can only misguide you

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  #659  
Old 28.08.2009, 18:08
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Re: Religious Musings

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God created Us in His image, but the problem began when We started Creating God in Our images
You recycle way too many quotes from the net Again I trust you bit more that Ali but still not enough. Just words...
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  #660  
Old 28.08.2009, 18:25
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Re: Religious Musings

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u r really lord of darkness and darkness can only misguide you

Why not leave the judging part to god? God does not worry me one bit but his followers............
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