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  #921  
Old 05.05.2010, 18:26
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Re: Religious Musings

Blessed are the cheesemakers.

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  #922  
Old 05.05.2010, 18:29
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Re: Religious Musings

Deities are more creative in Mexico

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  #923  
Old 21.05.2010, 12:59
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Re: Religious Musings

Latest take on religious western people vs. religious islamic people according to Bill Maher

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  #924  
Old 21.05.2010, 13:09
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Re: Religious Musings

Yeah, that's almost 10 years old. Here's a newer take (starts at 2:15, but the stuff before is still funny):

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  #925  
Old 22.03.2011, 06:51
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Religion dying out in Switzerland

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

According to this article, census data reflects a continuing trend in 9 countries (one of which is Switzerland) of lack of affiliation with a religion.

I personally wonder whether this actually indicates non-religious folk, or just folk who don't care to pay the church tax.
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Old 22.03.2011, 08:07
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

Hmmm...the stats I had last year from the office of stats in Neuch say otherwise. Actually, the original religion is decreasing, the newcomers spread catholicism, so that is on the rise (said the data in august 2010, if I am not mistaken), while the traditional protestantism is lower. I had this data linked to languages and mobility, etc. But don't remember the over all figure. Personally, I wouldn't mind the head counts of religious folks lower, if the head counts of kids that learn about all religions in school/church higher.

Czechs have been traditionally atheist, well, since the churches were prosecuted by the regime 1945-1989, so it is logical. It is maybe a little different now.
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  #927  
Old 22.03.2011, 08:38
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

I don't think the lack of affiliation to a particular religion and rise in atheism is linear. Regular church attendance is on a slippery slope, that's for sure. But how many of those non attenders elect for a baptism, a church wedding, or a church funeral. No doubt some who do are atheists but not all. Many just don't think churches are relevant to them. I don't attend a church, nor am I affiliated with a religion here, but I'm not an atheist. I know lots of families who are the same.
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  #928  
Old 22.03.2011, 09:03
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

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.... the original religion is decreasing, the newcomers spread catholicism, so that is on the rise ..... while the traditional protestantism is lower.
Sorry ... not sure I follow this point. You obviously have a point of reference, but in general terms, I would have thought that it was vice versa - the original (Christian) religion predominant in Europe was Catholicism (post Christ), and only circa 16th century with Henry VIII in England and Martin Luther in west central Europe (Germany), did the alternative Protestant religion start to develop, and slowly spread.

I know that there are areas in CH that are strongly influenced and practice one or the other - again generally - major cities and east CH tend to be more liberal Protestant, whereas in the west (Romandie), Catholicism is more prevalent.

In Kanton Fribourg, it is very strongly set with the old traditional Catholic beliefs, but here slowly, as more people move from Bern direction, there appears to be more Protestants appearing.

This is seen by the more open-mindedness of newcomers here and that the nearest Reformist church had to be extended a few years ago. Plus some families, who were traditionally (and for generations) Catholic have changed to Protestant, so their children can be brought up without the same constraints that their parents had to endure.
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  #929  
Old 22.03.2011, 09:32
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

I think secularization in the western world has been going on for some years. Kids nowadays know nothing about religion, the Bible, Christ etc. There is a German radio station that regularly asks people in the street around Christian holidays: Why do we celebrate Christmas/Easter/Pentecost? And most young ones don't know, some come up with hair-raising answers.
I am not saying you have to be Christian or a believer in any kind of religion. It is just sad that we seem to be losing a part of western culture.
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Old 22.03.2011, 09:43
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

I've lived in a tiny village in the inner core of a Kanton known for voting down almost every initiative for more than 20 years.

The sigrist (the man who has the church keys, locks and opens the church and helps the priest during mass) was my father-in-law. I felt the power of the Catholic church strongly when I arrived on the scene.

20 years ago, one was still expected to go to church once a week or you would lose group status in the village.

The more "faithful" you were, the higher your status.

And then, about the time the military lost its almighty power over the Swiss nation, so did the church.

Nowadays, in my tiny village, the church is quite empty during mass. There has even been a Christmas mass that was not full.

No one is no longer judged by how often one goes to church. In fact, if you go too often, you lose status in the village.

The church has lost its power and the locals are glad. They will still baptise their kids and send their kids to school religion. Some will get married in the church and most will have a funeral in the church. However, the daily power of the church has been lost and people are enjoying the freedom of not going but don't want to let go of the tradition of the church completely.

There are no religious alternatives in our local village. People are now spiritual in an individual way.

Better or worse? Time will tell.

Amen.
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  #931  
Old 22.03.2011, 10:07
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

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I think secularization in the western world has been going on for some years. Kids nowadays know nothing about religion, the Bible, Christ etc. There is a German radio station that regularly asks people in the street around Christian holidays: Why do we celebrate Christmas/Easter/Pentecost? And most young ones don't know, some come up with hair-raising answers.
I am not saying you have to be Christian or a believer in any kind of religion. It is just sad that we seem to be losing a part of western culture.
Sad or joyous?

And I highly doubt young people don't know anything about religious holidays. Young people have religion shoved down their throats in popular movies all the time. If you know anything about teenagers, they're more than likely to be just taking the piss.
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  #932  
Old 22.03.2011, 10:20
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

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Sorry ... not sure I follow this point. You obviously have a point of reference, but in general terms, I would have thought that it was vice versa - the original (Christian) religion predominant in Europe was Catholicism (post Christ), and only circa 16th century with Henry VIII in England and Martin Luther in west central Europe (Germany), did the alternative Protestant religion start to develop, and slowly spread.
I guess she means that protestantism was predominant in large parts of switzerland for hundreds of years, due to Calvin and Zwingli. You might want to add these two guys to your account of the development of protestantism.


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I know that there are areas in CH that are strongly influenced and practice one or the other - again generally - major cities and east CH tend to be more liberal Protestant, whereas in the west (Romandie), Catholicism is more prevalent.
That is incorrect. For the western part the cities (and cantons) Geneva, Vaud and Neuchatel (the majority) were protestant. Only the smaller (poulationwise) part, Valais, Fribourg, Jura were predominantly catholic.

Nowadays, with the exception of Bern, all major cities in Switzerland count more registered catholics than protestants. Contributing factors were the influx of catholics from the more rural and poorer parts of Switzerland and
the influx of southern, catholic europeanns (Italians, Spanish, Portuguese).
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  #933  
Old 22.03.2011, 10:27
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

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I've lived in a tiny village in the inner core of a Kanton known for voting down almost every initiative for more than 20 years.

The sigrist (the man who has the church keys, locks and opens the church and helps the priest during mass) was my father-in-law. I felt the power of the Catholic church strongly when I arrived on the scene.

20 years ago, one was still expected to go to church once a week or you would lose group status in the village.

The more "faithful" you were, the higher your status.

And then, about the time the military lost its almighty power over the Swiss nation, so did the church.

Nowadays, in my tiny village, the church is quite empty during mass. There has even been a Christmas mass that was not full.

No one is no longer judged by how often one goes to church. In fact, if you go too often, you lose status in the village.

The church has lost its power and the locals are glad. They will still baptise their kids and send their kids to school religion. Some will get married in the church and most will have a funeral in the church. However, the daily power of the church has been lost and people are enjoying the freedom of not going but don't want to let go of the tradition of the church completely.

There are no religious alternatives in our local village. People are now spiritual in an individual way.

Better or worse? Time will tell.

Amen.
As an athesist I can say this is only a good thing, if we can get rid of ALL religion the world would probably be a better place.

There's an old saying "religion is the education for the poor." Obviously the southern US has it's share of nutters and this power base can easily be abused regardless of religion. This leads to wars, intolerance and lack of true education/understanding. (Creationism anyone?)

Really religious followers are being conned there's nothing that says you need a priest/vicar/imam to intrepret the texts, or telling you where to worship.

If I had to choose a religion it would probably be paganism, more sense in worshiping the sun and the earth than anything else.
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  #934  
Old 22.03.2011, 10:32
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

Without HD screens, instant playback gratification and total 3D immersion, the church is on a hiding to nothing. I don't see any difference to religious interest declining here any more than other European nations. The church still has its structure in Switzerland for civil ceremonies and like I'm about to do again Friday, catch a funeral to brighten up an afternoon
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  #935  
Old 22.03.2011, 10:40
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

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As an athesist I can say this is only a good thing, if we can get rid of ALL religion the world would probably be a better place.
Comrades Stalin and Mao would agree with you.
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  #936  
Old 22.03.2011, 10:50
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

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It is just sad that we seem to be losing a part of western culture.
I can just barely hear the whines of our hirsute cave-dwelling forefathers bemoaning the lack of interest in Blarg, the god of meat dropped in the fire.
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  #937  
Old 22.03.2011, 10:50
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

According to this article, census data reflects a continuing trend in 9 countries (one of which is Switzerland) of lack of affiliation with a religion.

I personally wonder whether this actually indicates non-religious folk, or just folk who don't care to pay the church tax.
In my observation politically correct cafeteria style religions are losing supporters, whereas those groups that stick their neck out a bit more and preach that there is more to religion than rainbows are gaining ground. If people can be arsed to go to church they want there to be a message.
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  #938  
Old 22.03.2011, 10:51
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

hopefully the bell ringing will decrease too!
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  #939  
Old 22.03.2011, 10:52
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

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Comrades Stalin and Mao would agree with you.
People are stupid and they need someone to follow. Dictators see the gap in the market and fill it with their great personality
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Old 22.03.2011, 10:54
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Re: Religion dying out in Switzerland

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Sad or joyous?

And I highly doubt young people don't know anything about religious holidays. Young people have religion shoved down their throats in popular movies all the time. If you know anything about teenagers, they're more than likely to be just taking the piss.
That's not just religion. It's culture and knowledge in general.

We still have a public holiday on May 1st, but I doubt many people know very much about Karl Marx these days. Probably not even the ones who celebrate his birthday (or whatever) by fighting the police and setting fire to cars.
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