Exactly the opposite, if they're touting for business - longer and louder, to ensure it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

Yeah because there has never been an evil religious person. Bin Laden anyone?

I know where he's buried.
After an arduous expedition through overgrown woodland, I did stumble upon this:



[but I don't think it's the true messiah]

Those were not atheists.. so no....

Karl Marx was born during the Haymarket affair in Chicago?

Yes, they get it everywhere - in movies, books etc. but they don't understand it and they don't make connections. Show the "The Life of Brian" - they won't see why it is funny.

I LOL at the fact that this came exactly after a temporary ban of the religious zealot of this forum....



LMFAO....

1st of May was not invented by or because of Karl Marx. It was one of the Nazis' biggest celebration.

Certain posts here reminded me of hitchens' challenge.

"Here is my challenge. Let someone name one ethical statement made, or one ethical action performed, by a believer that could not have been uttered or done by a nonbeliever. And here is my second challenge. Can any reader of this column think of a wicked statement made, or an evil action performed, precisely because of religious faith? The second question is easy to answer, is it not? The first --I have been asking it for some time --awaits a convincing reply. By what right, then, do the faithful assume this irritating mantle of righteousness? "

Gute morge everyone...im a protestant/bible believer and would just like to ask about churches near our place (untersiggenthal to be specific). Ive been here since February and never gone to church but would love to go either saturday or sunday but saturday better coz i believe in keeping the Sabbath. I know i could just google this but personal testimonies would be much better.
Vielen Dank and enjoy ur day.

You do know that 1st of may is the same thing (albeit on a different date) than Labor Day

Plus it was celebrated way before there was such a thing as nazis.


As to Germany: It is true that the Nazis made it (may 1st) an official holiday, but there were tentatives to do so during the "Weimarer Republik" from the opposite side of the political aisle.

I must be watching the wrong movies.

They certainly promoted atheism as the state ideology, and under their regimes, they suppressed very heavily all forms of religion. Communism is, at its core, an atheist ideology.

I think an atheist state, which promotes and pushes atheism as the only true world view, is inevitably going to be an unpleasant place to live. "We do not tolerate any form of religion" seems a fairly intolerant position. And as for "All forms of religion are evil" -that just flies in the face of the facts of human history. I'd prefer to live in a state which promotes no specific ideology or philosophy.

It didn't take long for this thread to descend to the usual diatribes from ill-informed posters. On both sides.

__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

The church definitely has a traditional role here in Switzerland. The church itself, the bells, the holidays, the history all play an important role in being Swiss. No one wants to get rid of the them which is why they don't want to get rid of their Catholic roots either. By completely turning their back on the local religion, they are, in some ways, turning their back on Swiss tradition. It's a double edged sword.

Stephanienie... you are in the wrong thread... welcome to the forum

I'm surprised that someone who is as apparently intelligent as Hitchens could ask these questions.

The answers are obvious - he must have been asking the wrong people.

1. No.
2. Yes.

I assume those answers are convincing enough?

But I can also think of wicked statements, or an evil actions performed, precisely because of atheist conviction. So, question 2 seems fairly pointless.

The idea that atheists are somehow better people morally and ethically because they are not religious seems to me to smack of assuming an "irritating mantle of righteousness".

The personality cult is certainly not an atheist trait, if we could even define atheists traits at all. By pure definition, The soviet Union was not a Communist state.




What we atheists and Antitheists push for is secularist states. The fact that primates used to hold other primates as holy in human history is one of the things from which we need to move on.



Ahm no, as you failed to mention them

No, what Hitchens and most atheists state is that no claim to absolute truth and morality due to supernatural claims is valid, and is irritating when you have to push it on the rest.





I can see it somewhat on your post...

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"Curses are like young chicken: they always come home to roost."

ja, i notices, sorry. I aleady posted somewhere

As I say, I'd prefer to live in a state that promotes or protects no specific ideology or philosophy. That to me, would be a decent, secular state. A secularist state. Er.. no thanks.


Are we talking catholic hierarchy here or monkeys? ( If there's a difference ).
Well of course!

Back on the subject of religion dying out. What would be interesting to know is how many people who don't do church/synagogue/fsm(wm) restaurant still consider themselves religious. And are there any religious groups/areas that are experiencing growth?

What's the problem? Every religion has a number of saints, prophets, gurus, teachers, call them what you want, who did good and wonderful things because of their faith. What exactly are you getting at?

This is the No True Scotsman argument:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

It is a logical fallacy. If Hitchens has to grab at this particular straw, it shows he's heavily on the defensive.