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  #81  
Old 24.08.2009, 16:38
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Re: Religious Musings

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That's really government, not religion.
No Phos, I'm talking about the inside of the Tribu. This has nothing to do with the gouvernment.

The shaman roles always been a strong one, you can compared it to a mollah or a preacher.

It was not one God who was talking to the shaman, but the nature and his power. They have a strong believe in it.
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  #82  
Old 24.08.2009, 16:45
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Re: Religious Musings

Sure, but where does the Shaman oppress people? Forcing them to eat peyote and dance? Basically, when you get any group of people together, someone is bound to oppress another. What's religion got to do with it?


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It was not one God who was talking to the shaman, but the nature and his power. They have a strong believe in it.
They have an animistic belief set with demi-gods and such, but The Great Spirit is comparable to the monotheist God we often discuss
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  #83  
Old 24.08.2009, 16:56
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Re: Religious Musings

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what you believe in is your business..
It's not as clear cut as your are making it out to be young man

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/72_Virgins

Point is that there are verses in Quran/Hadiths that can be interpreted in many ways by different followers. You can say whatever PC things you want but that is a fact.

What does your religion say about gays? Muslims who want to become atheists or convert to another religion?

If god can't even communicate his desire/command/order/requests clearly and without human double speak then as far as I am concerned he is a useless god. More likely he does not exist and people made up nice (disgusting) fairy tales
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  #84  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:03
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Re: Religious Musings

Right, but if the Shaman said the nature talk to him and told him, Run faster his shadow is a danger for the tribu, they will kick him out or may do some kind of sacrifice to bring the nature to be nice and forgiveful to them.

Or maybe, the wind told to the Shaman to marry Fat Mama in the shadow with Big Bear Paw to bring more food next winter?

Religion is based on believe, we agree on it? It's not the religion who oppress another, but the spiritual guide you may have the bad luck to deal with.

Why some Muslim act as kamikaze and the rest don't? If you don't have access to education, if you are poor, nothing to eat, no great futur and a gouvernment who's doing nada to help, you might turn to the religion.

If the guy in front of you who is the guide in your community gives you good advise and help you to ask questions and to find answers, you are blessed. But if you have an idiot in front of you who tells you stupids stories and use your innocence to make you do something, you might do it, because this is the only thing you know, you trust the guy and you think he is there for your own good.

Now, you can put that in the judaism, Christianism, Islam or tribu spiritualism. Oppression is not coming from the religion, but for the people in control of it!
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  #85  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:06
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Re: Religious Musings

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Point is that there are verses in Quran/Hadiths that can be interpreted in many ways by different followers. You can say whatever PC things you want but that is a fact.

What does your religion say about gays? Muslims who want to become atheists or convert to another religion?
There are all kinds of ways to cut and paste scripture to make it suit a particular agenda. This is oftentimes done to suit the local culture.

In regards to homosexuality, some cultures consider it gay to play the center position, but not gay to play quarterback. American Football analogy there:

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  #86  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:09
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Re: Religious Musings

People who are in control of religion essentially define religion...
How anyone can be a Catholic and disliking the Pope and his minions is beyond me.
His predecessors defined what you believe in and compiled the bible according to their ideas and decisions. I can see how you can diffentiate between organised religion and a vague sense of god, but religion and its ground staff ? Impossible.
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  #87  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:09
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Re: Religious Musings

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Right, but if the Shaman said the nature talk to him and told him, Run faster his shadow is a danger for the tribu, they will kick him out or may do some kind of sacrifice to bring the nature to be nice and forgiveful to them.

Or maybe, the wind told to the Shaman to marry Fat Mama in the shadow with Big Bear Paw to bring more food next winter?

Religion is based on believe, we agree on it? It's not the religion who oppress another, but the spiritual guide you may have the bad luck to deal with.

Why some Muslim act as kamikaze and the rest don't? If you don't have access to education, if you are poor, nothing to eat, no great futur and a gouvernment who's doing nada to help, you might turn to the religion.

If the guy in front of you who is the guide in your community gives you good advise and help you to ask questions and to find answers, you are blessed. But if you have an idiot in front of you who tells you stupids stories and use your innocence to make you do something, you might do it, because this is the only thing you know, you trust the guy and you think he is there for your own good.

Now, you can put that in the judaism, Christianism, Islam or tribu spiritualism. Oppression is not coming from the religion, but for the people in control of it!

I see what you are saying here. Yes, there is a tendency for people to turn off their minds and have someone else do their thinking for them. Mind you, this happens in any kind of corporate structure.
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  #88  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:18
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Re: Religious Musings

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I see what you are saying here. Yes, there is a tendency for people to turn off their minds and have someone else do their thinking for them. Mind you, this happens in any kind of corporate structure.
Totally!

I just wanted to show you it can happened in the spiritual structure of a Tribu.

I think it can happened in every religion and spiritual group. As long as you have someone with a taste for power in charge of a group, it will happened.

Islam is the world's biggest religion. And most of the adept are coming from poor countries. No surprise about what it's going on in the world.
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  #89  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:19
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Re: Religious Musings

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If god can't even communicate his desire/command/order/requests clearly and without human double speak then as far as I am concerned he is a useless god. More likely he does not exist and people made up nice (disgusting) fairy tales
Ok.. how would you suggest a god should operate?
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  #90  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:21
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Re: Religious Musings

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It's not as clear cut as your are making it out to be young man

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/72_Virgins

Point is that there are verses in Quran/Hadiths that can be interpreted in many ways by different followers. You can say whatever PC things you want but that is a fact.

What does your religion say about gays? Muslims who want to become atheists or convert to another religion?

If god can't even communicate his desire/command/order/requests clearly and without human double speak then as far as I am concerned he is a useless god. More likely he does not exist and people made up nice (disgusting) fairy tales
That wikiislam site is a pile of BS !!!!
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  #91  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:22
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Re: Religious Musings

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It's not as clear cut as your are making it out to be young man

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/72_Virgins

Point is that there are verses in Quran/Hadiths that can be interpreted in many ways by different followers. You can say whatever PC things you want but that is a fact.

What does your religion say about gays? Muslims who want to become atheists or convert to another religion?

If god can't even communicate his desire/command/order/requests clearly and without human double speak then as far as I am concerned he is a useless god. More likely he does not exist and people made up nice (disgusting) fairy tales
Or about the size of the pebbles to be used while stoning to death some hapless woman for having a "good session" outside marriage? I kinda find it funny when one section of believers claim their version of the fairy tale is "correct" and the other is wrong, and in public forums, defend only the pc part of the fairytales (not referring to any individual, just a general comment).

40 virgins or 72 virgins or veterans whores, which one is "correct", when the whole notion of heavan is itself a fairytale

I am reminded of the Big-end-ians (Lilliputs) telling the small-end-ians that their way is correct . Fact is no one has ever seen Quran to verify its contents, it has just passed down by word over generations, and naturally has versions as suited for different peoples, and as they say, a fish grows after it is caught.
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  #92  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:28
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Re: Religious Musings

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Or about the size of the pebbles to be used while stoning to death some hapless woman for having a "good session" outside marriage? I kinda find it funny when one section of believers claim their version of the fairy tale is "correct" and the other is wrong, and in public forums, defend only the pc part of the fairytales (not referring to any individual, just a general comment).

40 virgins or 72 virgins or veterans whores, which one is "correct", when the whole notion of heavan is itself a fairytale

I am reminded of the Big-end-ians (Lilliputs) telling the small-end-ians that their way is correct . Fact is no one has ever seen Quran to verify its contents, it has just passed down by word over generations, and naturally has versions as suited for different peoples, and as they say, a fish grows after it is caught.
Once again... I can understand your disgust for Islam or Religions in genral but that does not give you a reason to "Slander" ... I guess some people never learn or give up!

Quran does exist in book form and anybody can read it... again can show me which verse in Quran says about Stoning of a woman who comitts adultery?

If you cant then... just SHUT UP.
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  #93  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:29
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Re: Religious Musings

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It's not as clear cut as your are making it out to be young man

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/72_Virgins
Strongly recommended to read it. By God, it beats Kamasutra and no wonder people are ready to martyr themselves .

Ah, but it must be "incorrect", no?
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  #94  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:36
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Re: Religious Musings

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Once again... I can understand your disgust for Islam or Religions in genral but that does not give you a reason to "Slander" ...
I think this is a problem in translation. I often see the world "slander" used by Muslims when people criticize Islam, which is totally wrong. Slander would be against you personally. No one is saying anything against you. People are just saying your religion really really sucks.
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Old 24.08.2009, 17:40
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Re: Religious Musings

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Once again... I can understand your disgust for Islam or Religions in genral but that does not give you a reason to "Slander" ... I guess some people never learn or give up!

Quran does exist in book form and anybody can read it... again can show me which verse in Quran says about Stoning of a woman who comitts adultery?

If you cant then... just SHUT UP.
When did I say I have disgust? I enjoy them just as much as I do reading Hindu and Christian stories, and Three Little Pigs and Hansel and Gretel
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  #96  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:41
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Re: Religious Musings

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I think this is a problem in translation. I often see the world "slander" used by Muslims when people criticize Islam, which is totally wrong. Slander would be against you personally. No one is saying anything against you. People are just saying your religion really really sucks.
Thats true.. I guess if Religion is from God then we should let Him look after it

But if you are wanting a battle of Wits with me.. then go ahead, try me...
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  #97  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:43
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Re: Religious Musings

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Thats true.. I guess if Religion is from God then we should let Him look after it

But if you are wanting a battle of Wits with me.. then go ahead, try me...
You lost your cool few posts ago Anyway I am out to celebrate my good news. See you in hell where I have a nice hot seat reserved for you
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  #98  
Old 24.08.2009, 17:44
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Re: Religious Musings

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I think this is a problem in translation. I often see the world "slander" used by Muslims when people criticize Islam, which is totally wrong. Slander would be against you personally. No one is saying anything against you. People are just saying your religion really really sucks.
BTW on the other thread regarding hitting Women.. one of them was a Russian woman who said that she wouldnt mind a Guy hitting her as long as He would keep her...
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Old 24.08.2009, 17:45
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Re: Religious Musings

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You lost your cool few posts ago Anyway I am out to celebrate my good news. See you in hell where I have a nice hot seat reserved for you
Hahaha... Good to know, atleast you thought I was Cool
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  #100  
Old 24.08.2009, 19:43
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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Speaking with Islamic perspective, even Heaven will have different Levels (Higher adn Lower) and Sections... for example a Painter's heaven would not be the same as a Musician's.
I definately am going for Hell then.
I am an outspoken non compliant accountant and the last thing I would want to do is end up in a bit of heaven with a load of boring square bean-counters.
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