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  #161  
Old 25.08.2009, 16:57
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Re: Religious Musings

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Yes and the scriptures of Jews and Christans are mentioned in the Quran as well. Bible and Torah were the scriptures given to Jesus and Moses, may peace be upon them. But Allah mentions in the Quran the that Moses was sent to the children of Israel with torah. Quran says that as time passed people modified torah and took to idol worship. Then Jesus was sent with bible to confirm what they got before (i.e. Torah) and not to start a new religion but to fulfill the old religion, the religion of submission to one true God. Jesus say in the bible "I have not been sent but for the lost sheep of Israel". Moses and Jesus were only sent for the children of Israel and for nobody else. As per Quran, Jesus was taken as son of God wheras he was ajust a messenger. According to Quran, God is One and Only and he is alone of His kind. Similarily Allah says in Quran that He has sent a messenger to every nation and to every people and also informed them that there will be a final messenger with the proofs and they should follow him when he is sent. The last and final messenger Mohammad (pbuh) was sent for the whole of humanity, it is mentioned in Quran. All the religious scriptures of Jews and Christians have direct or indirect references to Mohammad's coming. In fact the scriptures of Hindus, the vedas, the upanishads they all mention the coming of the last prophet by name, Muhammad, at number of places. These vedas, upanishads are said to be 4000 years old.....

Can I ask you where you learned all this?

I'd hate to tell you that a lot of what you are saying is not true. Jesus did not bring the Bible. It was written quite a time after his crucifixion.

It is commonly believed that Moses wrote the Pentateuch himself, but nowhere in it is any reference the Moses wrote it.

The Deuteronomic books were written well after Moses passed away. The Psalms and Proverbs are traditionally attributed to David and Solomon.

This leaves me to suspect that Muslims have their own particular version of history, or there are simply misconceptions that are being taught within certain places in Islam. Which would you say?
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  #162  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:02
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Re: Religious Musings

Thanks for that post, sorry I misunderstood the examples as being Islam has helped someone here and now around me etc... which was kind of non-significant for me, compared to historical importances of a Religion as you mentioned.

Yes I agree, Christianity and before that Judaism was the Religion of God (Still are, minus the human interferenes) and the biggest suport Muhammad (AS) had was from Christians, his first Wife was Christian who helped him understand certain signs and the first Revelation.

At the time of Advent of Islam... people (local Arabs) used to bury there female children alive and women were often traded as cattle... Islam actually GAVE Rights to wmen at that time.

Also there were lot of tribal wars and vendettas... and same enemy Tribes afterwards were united as formiddable force.

Child allowances from the State common in EU countires and a Welfare Fund for the needy also originated during the early days of islam.

There are good things about people anywhere and anytime... and dont think its reasonable to compare one against the other, as at th eend of the day we are all same Humans.
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  #163  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:05
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Re: Religious Musings

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- Despite whatever evil purposes lay behind some of the actions of the USA, there is a contingency of forces that genuinely strives to better the lives of people all over the world. This is demonstrated in the amount of aid sent by the US in the last half of the last century. In many places of the world, there are marked differences in the lives of people
What's the US foreign aid budget got to do with Christianity then?
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  #164  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:07
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Re: Religious Musings

All of u r Talking about Islam Why not about christianity or jews some more strikt,or dont forget about first and second testiment,dont forget extremisem in christianity,dont forget the religious cold war.

I respekt all religion,in the world,everyone can critisized about every religion,but we no need to be a extremised,dont forget every form of extremisem is hating each other,either politik or religion,

so my friends let every one to live and alive.
religion is a very personal thing of every humanbeing.
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  #165  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:09
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Re: Religious Musings

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What's the US foreign aid budget got to do with Christianity then?
I happen to think some US Foreign aid were acts of benevolence politically passed as acts of charity. Amirite?
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  #166  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:10
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Re: Religious Musings

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Can I ask you where you learned all this?

I'd hate to tell you that a lot of what you are saying is not true. Jesus did not bring the Bible. It was written quite a time after his crucifixion.

It is commonly believed that Moses wrote the Pentateuch himself, but nowhere in it is any reference the Moses wrote it.

The Deuteronomic books were written well after Moses passed away. The Psalms and Proverbs are traditionally attributed to David and Solomon.

This leaves me to suspect that Muslims have their own particular version of history, or there are simply misconceptions that are being taught within certain places in Islam. Which would you say?
I would say just bits "Lost in Translation"

You are right about what you said.. Bible according to ST John was not even written by St John, let alone Jesus (AS)

What he means his Jesus (AS) brought the Gospel (Good news), Moses (AS) brought the Torah (The Law)... Psalms and Proverbs are rightfully attributed to David (AS) and Solomon (AS)

Pslams is referrred to as "Zaboor" in Arabic.

What our friend is saying is those particuler Scriptures were brought by those Prophets of God... However, NOT Written by them physically as you stated.

Its more like those Divine Scriptures were "Revealed" via Inspiration to those Prophets.
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  #167  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:12
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Re: Religious Musings

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Thanks for that post, sorry I misunderstood the examples as being Islam has helped someone here and now around me etc... which was kind of non-significant for me, compared to historical importances of a Religion as you mentioned.
My point is that what I often hear about Islam have negative undertones. I was simply trying to give you the opportunity to echo the positive aspects of the religion.
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  #168  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:12
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Re: Religious Musings

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Can I ask you where you learned all this?

I'd hate to tell you that a lot of what you are saying is not true. Jesus did not bring the Bible. It was written quite a time after his crucifixion.

It is commonly believed that Moses wrote the Pentateuch himself, but nowhere in it is any reference the Moses wrote it.

The Deuteronomic books were written well after Moses passed away. The Psalms and Proverbs are traditionally attributed to David and Solomon.

This leaves me to suspect that Muslims have their own particular version of history, or there are simply misconceptions that are being taught within certain places in Islam. Which would you say?
The Bible (Injeel in Arabic) and Torah was sent down to Jesus and Moses respectively as per Quran. Don't compare these to the current forms of these book now. Yes todays bible and torah were writtend many many years after. The bible and torah that was sent were the commandments from God and not in a compiled book form.

If you consider the history from the point of view of Jews, Christans and Muslims yes they differ with each other barring few facts/names/events. If they all were same than this all would have been so simple isn't it? We would not have been discussing all this and there would have been one religion.
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  #169  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:15
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Re: Religious Musings

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All of u r Talking about Islam Why not about christianity or jews some more strikt,or dont forget about first and second testiment,dont forget extremisem in christianity,dont forget the religious cold war..
Yes sure, we know that.
It's just christian fanticisim is not strong enough any more to talk about it too much, otherwise wouldn't do better than other appearances of extremism.
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  #170  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:15
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Re: Religious Musings

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All of u r Talking about Islam Why not about christianity or jews some more strikt,or dont forget about first and second testiment,dont forget extremisem in christianity,dont forget the religious cold war.
Hi Ryan,

This thread started out as a discussion of Ramadan fasting - once you realize that, it is not too surprising that people on it would be talking mostly about Islam.
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  #171  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:15
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Re: Religious Musings

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All of u r Talking about Islam Why not about christianity or jews some more strikt,or dont forget about first and second testiment,dont forget extremisem in christianity,dont forget the religious cold war.

I respekt all religion,in the world,everyone can critisized about every religion,but we no need to be a extremised,dont forget every form of extremisem is hating each other,either politik or religion,

so my friends let every one to live and alive.
religion is a very personal thing of every humanbeing.
Let these guys finish with Islam.. after that Im gonna start with Judaism and Christianity
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  #172  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:18
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Re: Religious Musings

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I would say just bits "Lost in Translation"
The problems with the "Lost in Translation" excuse is that quite a LOT is actually lost. For example:

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Jesus say in the bible "I have not been sent but for the lost sheep of Israel". Moses and Jesus were only sent for the children of Israel and for nobody else.
Now that is quite a significant piece to lose in translation. Jesus spoke of bringing the gentiles into the fold.

And it almost looks like a claim that only Islam can bring in the gentiles. But the fact of the matter is, the Good News permeated Europe.
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  #173  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:18
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Re: Religious Musings

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My point is that what I often hear about Islam have negative undertones. I was simply trying to give you the opportunity to echo the positive aspects of the religion.
You very well did...

but, in life, I have leanred to judge something for what it is.. not what it can do for you or did for you...like an Objective and Intellectual Analysis...

Theres a Chinese Proverb which says "Before flood waters run down a wall, it touches their feet"
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  #174  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:19
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Yes sure, we know that.
It's just christian fanticisim is not strong enough any more to talk about it too much, otherwise wouldn't do better than other appearances of extremism.

Actually, Christian fanaticism has kinda changed to Christian Radicalism. But more on that in some other thread... pls.
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  #175  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:27
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Re: Religious Musings

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The Bible (Injeel in Arabic) and Torah was sent down to Jesus and Moses respectively as per Quran. Don't compare these to the current forms of these book now. Yes todays bible and torah were writtend many many years after. The bible and torah that was sent were the commandments from God and not in a compiled book form.
I'm sorry, this still doesn't make sense. Are you saying that there was a version of the Bible that was given to Jesus, and that it was re-written?

You mention a Bible and Torah not in a compiled book form. ??? They were written on scrolls by disciples. Or perhaps you are saying that the Bible is a revelation?

I'm not at all trying to deride you... but I think there is something lost here that is not due to translation.
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  #176  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:33
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Re: Religious Musings

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I'm sorry, this still doesn't make sense. Are you saying that there was a version of the Bible that was given to Jesus, and that it was re-written?

You mention a Bible and Torah not in a compiled book form. ??? They were written on scrolls by disciples. Or perhaps you are saying that the Bible is a revelation?

I'm not at all trying to deride you... but I think there is something lost here that is not due to translation.
All i am saying is that Quran says scriptures that you see now is a modified version of the earlier scriptures sent to Jesus and Moses. Why is this hard to understand?
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  #177  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:33
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Re: Religious Musings

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I'm sorry, this still doesn't make sense. Are you saying that there was a version of the Bible that was given to Jesus, and that it was re-written?
Wiki is a friend to us all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injil
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  #178  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:36
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Re: Religious Musings

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Let these guys finish with Islam.. after that Im gonna start with Judaism and Christianity
I think the Hindus, Sikhs and Parsis are heaving a sigh of relief somewhere!
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  #179  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:42
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Re: Religious Musings

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I think the Hindus, Sikhs and Parsis are heaving a sigh of relief somewhere!
Yes but not for long... All shall come and face the EF Tribunal
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  #180  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:44
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Re: Religious Musings

You mentioned Parsis... I have seen them and known about them from back home.. but never got to know what exactly is their Religion, apart from that they worship Fire?

Would you know... since you mentioned?
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