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Old 21.08.2009, 11:15
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Religious Musings

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Statistics has shown increase in amount of consumption of food during fasting month! Even price rises in some countries. Also amount of hospitalization incresaes due to sudden eat, deyderation, diabets (too much sweet in the night), not taking pills in proper time,...
So in the end this is not following the purpose which originally has been set for, like eating less, thinking about poors,...
Hahaha... thast so true... I can vouch for that, People actually put on Weight after a month of Fasting, suffer from various ailments and Prices of fruit, vegetables and meat are SKY HIGH!!

Although I would want to Clarify the "Purpose" of it..

It is neither about eating less (You can have decent diet all year around)

NOR... thinking about poor (In an Ideal Welfare (Muslim) State, everybody should be provided with Basic necessaties, appropriate Distribution of Wealth, rather than Accumalation in few Hands)

The Real Purpose is to learn Self Control and Discipline one's self.

In our day to day lives, most Humans act on instincts and impulse often without even realising, we eat when we're hungry, drink when thirsty, lie and cheat when it suits, explode when angry etc etc...

By fasting you Cut Off the MOST BASIC of all instincts which is Thirst and Hunger... and most Universal... EVERYONE feels hunger and thirst.. rich or poor, old or young, good or evil, honest or dishonest... though some of us can afford to eat at timely itervals and not actually feel it.

This way we are focused more on ourselves and our actions and in higher Self Conscious state.

A lot of times we tell small lies, daily withoutout even thinking about it, and believe it to be perfectly normal and acceptable... whereas lie is a lie, big or small AND so forth with other actions.

Its more like a time to Think and Reflect on One's actions, Self Analysis or filter the Right things from Wrong that we do in our day to day lives... Plus some overrated Medical and Health Benefits as Detox.

Though most of it is Lost in following the Tradition and Keeping up appearances within own Communities.

Just like some people actually come out of Ramadhan, Overweight and in ill health... same goes on the Spiritual side... Hardened in their Ways, Blessed and Forgiven for the previous Sins and ready to commit some more in the Year to follow...
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Old 21.08.2009, 11:16
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

Ramadam; just heard about it from my Pakistani clerk/secretary.

She tells me that she has to fast; not allowed to eat or drink even water for 30 days.
But the family will get up at 3:00am to binge and drink.

So she tells me I am going to have to put up with even more mood swings and aggrevation.
Its bad enough at "time of the month" and now this on top.

I cannot actually see the sense on starving and dehydrating yourself all day and then getting up at some uneartlhy hour to binge.

What about young children and babies; are they subject to this peculiar unnatural behaviour?

Perhaps someone here can tell me the purpose of this and surely this is not what Alla would expect?
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Old 23.08.2009, 10:48
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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I cannot actually see the sense on starving and dehydrating yourself all day and then getting up at some uneartlhy hour to binge.

Perhaps someone here can tell me the purpose of this and surely this is not what Alla would expect?
This is not restricted to Islam, Hindus too follow an umpteen number of rituals/fasts too, I think it has some historical roots particular to that region, but no longer relevant in the modern world.

See, just a century ago, food was scarce especially in those Asian regions, only the top 10% could indulge in meats and sweets on regular basis, and finding sufficient calories to survive was the goal of life. So for the working class, perhaps there was incentive to train their bodies to work at lower metabolism i.e. make the body more "efficient", but of course this would come at the cost of lower overall health and longevity. Now fasting and skipping meals is an excellent way to train your body to eat less without losing precious body weight.

A famous proverb in my native Indian language says "The one who eats thrice a day is a Rogi (diseased person); the one who eats twice a day is Bhogi (a sinful carnal pleasure-seeker), the one who eats once a day is a Yogi (the austere one)."

Now what will happen if these practices are applied to modern man living in cities whose diet is full of sugars and processed foods, meats etc and leads a sedentary life...who should rather be focusing on how to burn calories faster than he is eating?



That is where all these quacky diets and weightloss market comes in, subject of other EF debates
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Old 23.08.2009, 11:00
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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See, just a century ago, food was scarce especially in those Asian regions,
I don't think I agree that fasting in hinduism is about food scarcity and conservation. I know its a yogic practice for the disciplining and balancing of the mind and body.
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Old 23.08.2009, 11:10
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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I don't think I agree that fasting in hinduism is about food scarcity and conservation. I know its a yogic practice for the disciplining and balancing of the mind and body.
Sure, everone is entitled to their own thoughts, just as I am to mine
As for me, I am happier eating 5 meals a day, but you can eat once a day and be yogic

I think Hinduisim, as with most religions, used religious stories to scare people into doing what was desirable for survival in those days.

Why is eating cows a sin for Hindus? Simply because an alive cow was so much more useful, with milk, dung, even its uring used for so many purposes, and but for the religious scare, poor hungry people would be tempted to eat cows just like they stole neighbours' chicken and ate them . Religion as a deterrent. Same principle applies for keeping so many vegetarian days, bathing etc.
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Old 09.02.2010, 17:23
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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Ramadam; just heard about it from my Pakistani clerk/secretary.

She tells me that she has to fast; not allowed to eat or drink even water for 30 days.
But the family will get up at 3:00am to binge and drink.

So she tells me I am going to have to put up with even more mood swings and aggrevation.
Its bad enough at "time of the month" and now this on top.

I cannot actually see the sense on starving and dehydrating yourself all day and then getting up at some uneartlhy hour to binge.

What about young children and babies; are they subject to this peculiar unnatural behaviour?

Perhaps someone here can tell me the purpose of this and surely this is not what Alla would expect?
I just want to correct something:

"But the family will get up at 3:00am to eat AND drink"this depends on the sunrise,it could also be at 4.00 am, 5:00am or 6:00am.
You are allowed to eat and drink after the sunset.

babies,children AND pregnant woman (if she worries about her baby),sick people,diabetics.....

Fasting is also healthy
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Old 21.08.2009, 11:20
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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Hahaha... thast so true... I can vouch for that, People actually put on Weight after a month of Fasting, suffer from various ailments and Prices of fruit, vegetables and meat are SKY HIGH!!

Although I would want to Clarify the "Purpose" of it..

It is neither about eating less (You can have decent diet all year around)

NOR... thinking about poor (In an Ideal Welfare (Muslim) State, everybody should be provided with Basic necessaties, appropriate Distribution of Wealth, rather than Accumalation in few Hands)

The Real Purpose is to learn Self Control and Discipline one's self.

In our day to day lives, most Humans act on instincts and impulse often without even realising, we eat when we're hungry, drink when thirsty, lie and cheat when it suits, explode when angry etc etc...

By fasting you Cut Off the MOST BASIC of all instincts which is Thirst and Hunger... and most Universal... EVERYONE feels hunger and thirst.. rich or poor, old or young, good or evil, honest or dishonest... though some of us can afford to eat at timely itervals and not actually feel it.

This way we are focused more on ourselves and our actions and in higher Self Conscious state.

A lot of times we tell small lies, daily withoutout even thinking about it, and believe it to be perfectly normal and acceptable... whereas lie is a lie, big or small AND so forth with other actions.

Its more like a time to Think and Reflect on One's actions, Self Analysis or filter the Right things from Wrong that we do in our day to day lives... Plus some overrated Medical and Health Benefits as Detox.

Though most of it is Lost in following the Tradition and Keeping up appearances within own Communities.

Just like some people actually come out of Ramadhan, Overweight and in ill health... same goes on the Spiritual side... Hardened in their Ways, Blessed and Forgiven for the previous Sins and ready to commit some more in the Year to follow...
Dervaish I have an opening for a car salesman
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Old 21.08.2009, 11:25
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Religious Musings

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Dervaish I have an opening for a car salesman
Only if you sell Top End Luxury Cars...

Cant be bothered with selling VW Golf to Students or Vauxhall Zafira to some middle class family with 2.5 kids....
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Old 21.08.2009, 11:37
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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jrspet started this thread with the best of intentions, it would be sad to see it hijacked by anti-religion baiters.
Now now Castro Plenty of "scientific" threads get hijacked by the pro-religion baiters too. We just want to test and strengthen your faith


Btw I fail to see what the purpose of the thread was apart from selling a particualr car model.

That said to demonstrate how kind, loving, giving and caring sweet devil can be I will let you all fast in peace
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Old 21.08.2009, 11:38
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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Perhaps someone here can tell me the purpose of this and surely this is not what Alla would expect?
An ALMIGHTY God, The Creator... call it Allah, Jehovah, Ram, Boj (or by any other name) is not PETTY enough to expect anything from meagre Humans, who are no better than Animals in their crude form.

What is "expected" of Humans is merely for their own benefit and well being, You dont see Angels coming down to enfore the Divine Law ?!!

Though in some countries, there can be State Reinforcement... probably in Divine Franchise Business
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Old 22.08.2009, 00:21
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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An ALMIGHTY God, The Creator... call it Allah, Jehovah, Ram, Boj (or by any other name) is not PETTY enough to expect anything from meagre Humans, who are no better than Animals in their crude form.
Dervash, I've been wanting to engage someone from a muslim perspective in a conversation. I haven't found anyone. I'm quite inexperienced about the topic and would like to learn more. A lot of what I have read have either been propoganda, or simply wikipedia type descriptions. May I?

One of my big questions: In the muslim perspective of God, what is God's motivation for paying any mind to humans?
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Old 22.08.2009, 00:57
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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....what is God's motivation for paying any mind to humans?
Yeah Dervaish fire that iphone and launch igod communication software.
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Old 22.08.2009, 07:50
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Re: Religious Musings

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All religions are GOOD.
What, including Satanism?
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Old 22.08.2009, 08:04
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Re: Religious Musings

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I would not stake my savings account on it, but I think Mr Advocate is just happy to see Mr Phos has posted again after a long hiatus and is anticipating a renewal of activity in the God vs. Atheism debate.
I see that my premonition has indeed materialised even beyond my expectation. The active participation of a Muslim party (represented by Mr Dervaish) was indeed not anticipated. He is a welcome addition to the debate and I look forward to perusing his contributions to learn more about his Weltanschauung vs. that of the usual suspects.

I am now comfortably seated in my armchair with a jar of pickles and a box of crackers on my left and copies of the respective Holy Books on my right (I take it I will not be needing the Book of Mormons or the Tao-te-ching).

Gentlemen, please proceed. You have my full attention.
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Old 27.08.2009, 12:55
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

Once Moosa (AS) asked Allah Ta'ala: O Allah! You have granted me the honor and privilege of talking to you directly, Have you given this privilege to any other person? Allah Ta'ala replied, O!! Moosa during the last period I am going to send an ummat, who will be the Ummat of Mohammed (SAW) with dry lips, parched tongues, emaciated body with eyes sunken deep into their sockets, with livers dry and stomachs suffering the pangs of hunger- will call out to me (in dua) they will be much closer to me than you O Moosa! while you speak to me there are 70000 veils between you and me but at the time of iftaar there will not be a single veil between me and the fasting Ummati of Mohammed (SAW) O!! Moosa I have taken upon myself the responsibility that at the time of iftaar I will never refuse the dua of a fasting person!

Sub'hanallah!!
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Old 24.08.2009, 10:15
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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Dervash, I've been wanting to engage someone from a muslim perspective in a conversation. I haven't found anyone. I'm quite inexperienced about the topic and would like to learn more. A lot of what I have read have either been propoganda, or simply wikipedia type descriptions. May I?

One of my big questions: In the muslim perspective of God, what is God's motivation for paying any mind to humans?
I would love to engage in any conversation, even Religion, Got too much mental energy and time to kill...

Too approach the idea of God... you will have 2 options:

1) There was Nothing, there is Nothing and there will be Nothing.

2) There was God and then He Created the Universe and everything etc..

Humans are the last creation of God, after Angels and Jinns which do not have Freewill or Intelligence.

Humans are the Only Creation who posessed both Freewill and Intelligence and God's motivation for Humans was too Create somethng in his own Image and the Purpose of this life is to Define it.
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Old 24.08.2009, 10:37
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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I would love to engage in any conversation, even Religion, Got too much mental energy and time to kill...
People like to say that all religions worship the same God, but under different names. But when investigating the actions and attitudes of the God described in the scripture of the religions, they portray very different personalities. I understand, with PC and all, and man's desire for peace among religions. But Buddhist, Hindus, Muslims, Jews and Christians each paint a different personhood of God.
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Old 21.08.2009, 11:58
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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jrspet started this thread with the best of intentions, it would be sad to see it hijacked by anti-religion baiters.
Castro:

I think my questions and observations were totally valid and was surpised that I even got a thumbs down for my observation and question.

I have a secretary/clerk here that is Pakistani here.
We normally take it in turns to cook meals at lunch for the three of us in the office.
We end up eating a lot of fish meals and have to go into the trouble of getting halal meat.
We usually cook a proper curry once a week which we all love.
She has just informed me that she will not be participating in lunch for the next month; she will be late in to work or leave early depending on what the family want to do.

I consider myself understanding and flexible but don't you think that other nationalities/cultures should adapt to society and the type of culture they live in?

Now I will probably be called racist.
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Old 21.08.2009, 12:18
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

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Castro:

I think my questions and observations were totally valid and was surpised that I even got a thumbs down for my observation and question.

I have a secretary/clerk here that is Pakistani here.
We normally take it in turns to cook meals at lunch for the three of us in the office.
We end up eating a lot of fish meals and have to go into the trouble of getting halal meat.
We usually cook a proper curry once a week which we all love.
She has just informed me that she will not be participating in lunch for the next month; she will be late in to work or leave early depending on what the family want to do.

I consider myself understanding and flexible but don't you think that other nationalities/cultures should adapt to society and the type of culture they live in?

Now I will probably be called racist.
Oh Cashboy, lighten up will ya? I'm all for adapting to the society one finds oneself residing but in her case it's her religion. There aren't any national boundaries to it. I've worked with Jewish friends in NY and every Friday was a half day (religious freedom) and ofcourse they do their jobs satisfactorily when everything is said and done (no biggie!). You're mixing apples and oranges pushing your societal integration stance.
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Old 21.08.2009, 12:48
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Re: Sawm of Ramadan ( 2009 )

This is just sad.

This thread is about sharing our best wishes to the muslim and non-muslim on the forum, and it goes (as usual) on a religion argument...

I agree with sharing our ideas about if fasting is good or not, if it's crazy or not. But please, could we talk about it on an other thread?

Lets keep this one on the greeting mind!

Nil
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