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  #1801  
Old 06.08.2009, 16:04
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

Regarding contracts auto-renewing, I personally don't like it at all. It should be an option to auto-renew, or hell, even default if that's their business model. BUT, there should be a box to check on the contract that says "I don't want auto-renewal".

So, what I did (and was successful with) with Swisscom is the following:
1. When you sign the paper contract, cross out the wording for "auto-renewal", and write with a pen that "this contract should not auto-renew, and should expire on the final date of the fixed term, unless explicitly renewed in writing by the customer <your name here>. This contract should only be executed by Swisscom if this revision is respected".
2. Sign and date next to where you write this, make sure the date is on, or before the date where you sign the contract.

Remember, contracts here are what is on the paper when both parties sign. Swisscom was free to deny my contract, but they didn't. If they renew my contract now automatically, and I dont want this, I can call and ask them to revoke the auto-renewal. I will ask them to check the contract that they signed (which now says clearly that they can not auto-renew).

Contracts are not one way documents. You can add content to them, or change content. As long as both parties accept the contract in the end, this will hold up in the eyes of any court. I even called Swisscom and asked for confirmation that my contract has been accepted with my amendments, and they said yes - Try it!

Edit: Answering following post by vwilde1 - My contract was in English.. and I amended in English. My German isnt so good yet, and I do appreciate the ability and the flexibility to do this in English that some companies like Swisscom provide.

Last edited by cchi; 06.08.2009 at 16:31.
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  #1802  
Old 06.08.2009, 16:24
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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I even called Swisscom and asked for confirmation that my contract has been accepted with my amendments, and they said yes - Try it!
I'm curious, did you write the amendment in German or English and what was the language of the contract itself..?
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  #1803  
Old 06.08.2009, 17:47
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

Very smart move. I'd like to see if they honour this - they should, but it would be very interesting to see it put it to the test.
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  #1804  
Old 06.08.2009, 18:25
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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Not surprising, but it's different with something that has no alternative. It's not like suddenly you'll want to switch to a different rail service and realize you're stuck with DB.
Actually...

The local S-Bahn network here in Basel and in the nearby parts of Germany is covered by the local operators (TNW and RVL). While technically under the juristiction of DB, a BahnCard is not accepted over such relatively short distances and is therefore worthless if that is all the train travel you do.

Alright, sorry about the derailment. (edit: pun unintended, and then left in place after noticing it)
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  #1805  
Old 10.08.2009, 00:06
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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It works! Thanks!


Yes and yes!
Do you get 3g connectivity as well?
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  #1806  
Old 10.08.2009, 00:16
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

Just for everyones information (well, at least those in Basel), I found this great info here to get a fully unlocked iPhone legally:
http://a-fink.blogspot.com/2009/06/o...ne-3gs-in.html

Posting text here, in case that site goes down. This worked for me! New 3GS for 999 CHF, and completely and legally unlocked.

Hope someone else finds this as helpful as me.

Quote:
Step 1:

Go and buy a new iPhone 3GS in any Apple shop or at any Orange retailer. It is important that Orange is delivering the phone. Phones from Swisscom Mobile will not work. I got mines from Ingenodata in Basel for 999.- CHF (32GB iPhone 3GS model). This is the "full price" model which comes without any contract. (Orange told me full price was 1299.- but who cares. Your price might vary).

Step 2:

Take your purchase invoice and scan it in and e-mail it to info@orange.ch with the comment that you would like your full price iPhone to be unlocked. You should include the IMEI number and Serial number of your phone. You can find it at the back of the box. In my case I never got an answer from Orange that way (even I was promised Instant answer) but they need some proof you paid full price at some point.

Step 3:

Call 0800 700 700, the hotline of Orange and go through the too many menus to mobile phones and customer care. Ask them to unlock your iPhone which you purchased at full price. They might ask you to do what you did in Step 2. Be aware that depending on which person you end up talking to, the answer can be "send in the papers", "give me your IMEI and I activate it", "I'll pass it to the backoffice, they call you back" or "I have no clue, let me ask my collegue". But they all know that it is possible. And if they know how to do it, they can doit very quick.

Step 4:

If you end up on a friendly guy answering with "give me your IMEI and I'll enter it" then be sure your iPhone is connected via USB. Give him your IMEI, let him type it into the computer and once he has done that, launch iTunes. iTunes will ask the Apple activation server and should get the unlock code immediately. You get a message saying something like "Congratulation your phone is now unlocked". Don't believe the employees if they say it takes 2-3 days to be activated. It takes 2-3 days to get someone from Orange to enter the IMEI into the system but once its at Apple's server, its instant.

I've done that with 3 iPhone 3GS I bought this friday morning and even though it took me various calls (mainly because I was in a hurry as I was planning on traveling outside of country the next morning), it was an easy going process.

Note: even though I am a Swisscom Mobile customer since 1994 and I paid my previous iPhone 3G at full price, Swisscom does not want to unlock. This also means that if you buy iPhones from Swisscom, they wont unlock and you're stuck to be Swisscom customer and you can not put a foreign SIM card into the phone if you travel abroad (#1 reason for me to only buy unlocked iPhones). In my eyes this is illegal but I leave it to someone else to go to court for it.

I can only say, Thank you Orange for having this fair option, even though I'm not your subscription customer.
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  #1807  
Old 11.08.2009, 16:28
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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So I ordered the 3GS from the Swisscom website last Monday, and I just gave them a call to see how long more I can expect to be waiting and apparently they're out of stock and I could be waiting a few *weeks*. Anyone have some more accurate information on how long it normally takes to get these out to customers?

Mark
I guess all my ranting paid off - arrived in the post this morning - 5 business days later which I guess is acceptable.

Mark
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  #1808  
Old 11.08.2009, 16:32
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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I am waiting as well with Orange. I read someplace that there is a shortage of stock from Apple. Not just in CH.
Just got my 16 GB 3Gs black yesterday. The sales person at Orange confirmed that there have been delivery issues since July. A real hand to mouth situation.

Now I am very happy.
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  #1809  
Old 11.08.2009, 16:41
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

I tried ordering the 3GS online, Orange told me, via my account page on the website, I could upgrade at a discount, but when I go through the online shop, it won't let me order it. The "Order Now" link doesn't seem to work, or it's missing a button, I can only go back to the iphone selection page.

Guess I will actually have to speak to them on the phone, seeing as they haven't replied to my complaint about the website.

They do say on the order page that there will be a delay in delivery, it shouldn't stop me ordering it though.
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  #1810  
Old 11.08.2009, 16:42
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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Just got my 16 GB 3Gs black yesterday. The sales person at Orange confirmed that there have been delivery issues since July. A real hand to mouth situation.

Now I am very happy.
Orange delivered mine next day , although I'm probably in two seperate minorities e.g. its white and its 32GB.
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  #1811  
Old 11.08.2009, 23:02
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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Whoa, just a minute. This is exactly the propaganda that keeps the rates high here
Sorry to pick this up again, but I just stumbled over an interesting article on the topic:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08...nsive?from=rss

So much for cheaper mobile communication plans in the US... this is OECD data, not some for-profit crap funded by mobile operators.
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  #1812  
Old 11.08.2009, 23:25
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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Sorry to pick this up again, but I just stumbled over an interesting article on the topic:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08...nsive?from=rss

So much for cheaper mobile communication plans in the US... this is OECD data, not some for-profit crap funded by mobile operators.
yeah, you really should've just let it go. You should also try reading past the headlines. Did you even open those spreadsheets? They break down fixed plans vs per minute vs messaging. This doesn't account for people who use their mobile as their only phone, nor can it compare costs any better than we did last month. Again, it's Apples to Oranges. The US Plans are more expensive, but people use them alot more. The Swiss pay per minute and don't use them as much. This doesn't translate to a higher cost per unit, but rather a higher cost overall for the service. So If I use it more, it makes sense. Oh and let's not forget, US customers are paying for ALOT more coverage area. Let's see Europe make a single plan with a uniform cost overall. Take your Swisscom phone and drive 20 hours away and make a call home and then we'll see what it really costs. heh.

Why do you want to start this again? I was just shopping around for unlimited mobile data plans again today. You know what I found?
Nothing.
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  #1813  
Old 12.08.2009, 07:08
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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Why do you want to start this again? I was just shopping around for unlimited mobile data plans again today. You know what I found?
Nothing.
http://www.teltarif.ch/arch/2009/kw32/s9649.html

Now please stop complaining.
Again - you were claiming (and I quote) that "I'm wondering when Europe will get tired of paying 2-3x as much for calls and data at home". That's incorrect and I believe the OECD data shows that the opposite is the case, if anything.

Peter
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  #1814  
Old 12.08.2009, 10:34
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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http://www.teltarif.ch/arch/2009/kw32/s9649.html

Now please stop complaining.
Again - you were claiming (and I quote) that "I'm wondering when Europe will get tired of paying 2-3x as much for calls and data at home". That's incorrect and I believe the OECD data shows that the opposite is the case, if anything.

Peter
Those spreadsheets are incomplete, deceptive and inaccurate. Hell, they claim 1600 minutes per YEAR is heavy useage. I used to go through that in two weeks! Plus there's no comparison for coverage area or roaming or long distance, and they try to directly compare high unlimited use (like in the US) to low mer minute use (like in CH). That is in no way a complete comparison. Just look at the slashdot comments for people much smarter than myself tearing it apart. It's complete rubbish. You added nothing new to the analysis and certainly didn't prove anything with that.

And having a look at this new link, what would make me stop complaining? Peter, you just recommended plans that would cost 270 or 169 francs per month! Are you joking?

Man, you can't just read a headline, slap up a link and think you've made an argument.
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  #1815  
Old 12.08.2009, 10:42
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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And having a look at this new link, what would make me stop complaining? Peter, you just recommended plans that would cost 270 or 169 francs per month! Are you joking?
I'm sorry to hear that the OECD plans are not complete enough for you - please let them know, perhaps they'll be more thorough next time.

You were jammering about not getting unlimited plans here in Switzerland. Swisscom is about to offer just that - 169 Fr. per month for unlimited SMS, unlimited MMS, unlimited calls (outgoing and incoming) to all networks and unlimited data, including tethering. Did you think you'd get that for free? Please point out the US plan (as this is what the argument here is about) that costs 2-3 times less than that for the same service. Actually: please point out the US plan that will get you unlimited everything (including tethering, which usually costs 30$ per month alone) for 149$ (exchange rate taken from Zuger Kantonalbank).

Again - I'm not saying things are cheap here - but I think it's pretty obvious by now that your claim about mobile services being 2-3 cheaper in the US is simply not true.
Anyway, this is my last (o/t, sorry about that) post concerning this matter - I believe I have made my point abundantly clear.

Peter
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  #1816  
Old 12.08.2009, 14:45
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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I'm sorry to hear that the OECD plans are not complete enough for you - please let them know, perhaps they'll be more thorough next time.

You were jammering about not getting unlimited plans here in Switzerland. Swisscom is about to offer just that - 169 Fr. per month for unlimited SMS, unlimited MMS, unlimited calls (outgoing and incoming) to all networks and unlimited data, including tethering. Did you think you'd get that for free? Please point out the US plan (as this is what the argument here is about) that costs 2-3 times less than that for the same service. Actually: please point out the US plan that will get you unlimited everything (including tethering, which usually costs 30$ per month alone) for 149$ (exchange rate taken from Zuger Kantonalbank).

Again - I'm not saying things are cheap here - but I think it's pretty obvious by now that your claim about mobile services being 2-3 cheaper in the US is simply not true.
Anyway, this is my last (o/t, sorry about that) post concerning this matter - I believe I have made my point abundantly clear.

Peter
ok, well since you insist on focusing on only one part of my argument, I guess all I need to do is find one plan in the US that is 1/2 the cost of 169fr. sigh. hope this will make you drop it. ready? mind you these are actual, not theoretical vaporware like your Swisscon link:

TMobile, 1500mins, unlimited nights/weekends $49, add unlimited SMS and unlimited data for $24. That's $73 AND that includes a free smartphone (not an iPhone- yet) and remember, that's for the entire US with no roaming and no long distance on ANY network. Want to add unlimited wifi hotspots? $9 and you're still at half your beloved Swisscon price.

Oh, but there's more. Sprint offers the same plan as Swisscon, unlimited everything for $99. Not half but damn close. And both Sprint and TMobile have always allowed tethering for free. And neither throttles bandwidth at 2GB like your plan does. Charging for tethering is AT&T's schtick.

You can't focus on AT&T and assume they represent the general US market. They suck and have always been overpriced. If it weren't for the iPhone they'd be dead in the water.


And no I didn't think it would be free, but even your miraculous Swisscon plan has yet to materialize, and I still can't even get here in Switzerland what has been available in the US for 10 years. Now, please stop this nonsense and and go tell OECD to get their **** straight. Never trust a government committee to do research. Non-profit or no, they're funded by the same crooks who allow the general price fixing that keeps tarrifs high and uncompetitive. Read those spreadsheets again and look at how they shape the info. It's most certainly trying to say something, and you heard it. Remember, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
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  #1817  
Old 12.08.2009, 15:55
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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TMobile, 1500mins, unlimited nights/weekends $49, add unlimited SMS and unlimited data for $24. That's $73 AND that includes a free smartphone (not an iPhone- yet) and remember, that's for the entire US with no roaming and no long distance on ANY network. Want to add unlimited wifi hotspots? $9 and you're still at half your beloved Swisscon price.
Well, since you're coming back for more - 1500 mins is a lot, but it's not unlimited and incoming calls are deducted from that. I don't use my phone while I'm asleep - so the unlimited nights amount to nothing (that's why they offer them). Tethering on T-Mobile is theoretically free - too bad it's disabled on their branded phones, like the G1. And too bad T-Mobile offers 3G only in a handful of cities and leaves 80% of the country without any coverage whatsoever. The plans also don't include MMS.

Apart from that, if you're talking about this plan here:

http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/c...n=myFaves_1500

it's 69$ per month, not 49. Additional minutes cost 40 cents, including incoming calls. Instant messages are billed as SMS (WTF?), only DIGITAL roaming is included. Meaning if you travel to any of the areas that don't even offer digital service yet (analog service was gotten rid of in Europe about 8 years ago, if memory serves right), it'll cost you, even within the US.

Tried to figure out how much the additional services would cost. Had to enter a ZIP code - used the one where I used to live (about 1 1/2 half South of the Twin Cities). Result: "T-Mobile does not currently provide service in the 56xxx area. However, we are continuously expanding service, so please check back again* ". Now wait a minute - what's that?

Alright, let's use 90210 instead. Hmm, waiting for the free smartphones page. Alright - what you're getting for free is a Nokia 1680. Not exactly a smartphone. The google G1 costs 149$ on a two year contract, the touch Pro 2 349$.

Alright, let's pretend I'm willing to shed 349$ on a two year contract. The 24.99$ data plan is automatically added to my cart. How nice. Now we're at roughly 95$ / month. Now let's add unlimited messaging: 14.99 - so we're at 110$ per month. We get unlimited SMS and unlimited data but no unlimited voice and coverage only in the densely populated areas with analog roaming costing extra. Also, that's 110$ EXCLUDING tax.

As for the Sprint plan: doesn't include tethering ("Phone as modem or tethering: not included."). Also - please read the fine print: "Monthly charges exclude taxes, Sprint Surcharges [incl. USF charge of up to 12.9% (varies quarterly), Administrative Charge (up to $1.99/line/mo.), Regulatory Charge ($0.20/line/mo.). "Half as expensive? I think not. Costs marginally less than the Swisscom plan but you're stuck on their sluggish EVDO network (sluggish compared to HSDPA).

Calling Swisscom's press-releases "vaporware" is a bit odd.

And that's really it now. Already learned more about US cell plans than I ever cared for. One thing's certain: they f*** you with the cell phones (to quote Chris Rock in Lethal Weapon), both in the US and in Switzerland, and about equally.
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  #1818  
Old 12.08.2009, 20:34
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

Peter, you really made your point, rock solid. Thanks for setting me straight. I guess when I was a Sprint customer I wasn't tethering everyday with my Treo (btw, seriously, EVDO slower than HSPDA? um, no). And all that other stuff I was just pulling out of thin air too. I was having delusions. So is my friend Eric in Boulder who is tethering his G1 on Tmobile. I'll call him to let him know. You found the facts, plain and simple. And they're true because YOU found them- that's how i know I was wrong. I'm a huge fan of Swisscon now. It's so clear I'm saving boatloads of cash with them. I hope they call me the minute their new plan is out because I am ON IT. You know, they should make you their spokesperson, so gosh darn convincing.

wow you're hard headed.

And as for Tmobile, I was getting rates in Florida, Chicago, Wisconsin, Nebraska and Oregon, all the places I've lived. But I never lived in MN, so that's why I'm not as much an expert as you. I don't remember which State I found the prices I quoted but they vary from state to state and city to city. You're welcome to check it out, being so thorough I'm sure you will.

Vaporware: too good to be true, and non existent.

Last edited by robogobo; 12.08.2009 at 20:53.
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  #1819  
Old 12.08.2009, 21:06
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

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Peter, you really made your point, rock solid. Thanks for setting me straight. I guess when I was a Sprint customer I wasn't tethering everyday with my Treo (btw, seriously, EVDO slower than HSPDA? um, no).
Vaporware: too good to be true, and non existent.
I was just quoting what it said on their website - tethering was free but apparently they started charging for it a while ago.

http://forums.wirelessadvisor.com/sp...sprint-ev.html

In terms of pig-headedness I believe we'd tie for first place. I do tend to admit when I'm wrong (even when I don't like to do so) - but I don't when I know I'm not.

Anyway - here you can sign up for Swisscom's vaporware: http://www.swisscom.ch/res/mobile/ta...?languageId=en

Peter
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  #1820  
Old 12.08.2009, 23:49
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Re: The iPhone 3G thread and FAQ

That's really nice, Peter. Only I remember having this argument a few weeks ago and I'm not sure why you decided to bring it up again with nothing more to add. I've still shown you cheaper costs than in Switzerland, and you want to keep going with a final post, and then another final post and another. I don't know what kind of crusade you're on, but I really wish you'd find another hobby. I'm speaking from real life actual experiences, and while I'm happy you've dug up the most expensive tarrif I've EVER seen in my whole life, it's still WAY TOO MUCH. Get it? This is the iPhone 3G thread, and I'm sure you can find other people to discuss this with on the I Love Swiss Prices thread. My part of this threadjack is complete, and I'll look forward to your final word, as I certain is your wont.
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