Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07.07.2010, 09:47
Verbier's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lully VD
Posts: 4,405
Groaned at 17 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 4,676 Times in 2,364 Posts
Verbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond repute
Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

An interesting (FREE) report on the process of giving up American citizenship for those who might be curious about what is involved.


http://www.caseyresearch.com/crpmkt/...=CSR067XX0710A
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07.07.2010, 10:30
evilshell's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK, formerly Basel
Posts: 3,347
Groaned at 97 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 3,093 Times in 1,341 Posts
evilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Why does it make me nervous that they want an email address to give you this free guide?

I was reading the other day that consulates are now charging a fee of $450 to process the paperwork for expatriation, where it used to be free...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:06
Peg A's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 4,422
Groaned at 158 Times in 125 Posts
Thanked 5,428 Times in 2,510 Posts
Peg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
I was reading the other day that consulates are now charging a fee of $450 to process the paperwork for expatriation, where it used to be free...

I'm not surprised. When the attempt had been for hubby to move to the US rather than me moving here, almost every call I made to immigration for clarifications was met with suggestions to hire an immigration lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:15
Serafina's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canton Geneve
Posts: 504
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 230 Times in 153 Posts
Serafina has earned the respect of manySerafina has earned the respect of manySerafina has earned the respect of many
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

I'm curious why you'd want to give up US citizenship? Taxes?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:16
evilshell's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK, formerly Basel
Posts: 3,347
Groaned at 97 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 3,093 Times in 1,341 Posts
evilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
I'm not surprised. When the attempt had been for hubby to move to the US rather than me moving here, almost every call I made to immigration for clarifications was met with suggestions to hire an immigration lawyer.
In this case, expatriation means to give up your citizenship.

But they told you to call an immigration lawyer? Eeep. You'd think they could answer questions about how things are processed, what is needed, etc. If you do ever need one in the States, a friend of mine is one - let me know and I'll send you his way

Quote:
View Post
I'm curious why you'd want to give up US citizenship? Taxes?
Lots of pepole give up citizenship for various reasons. Taxes, unhappy with the intrusion that brings, not feeling connected to the US, accidential citizens who don't want/need US citizenship, etc.

Funny, in the US when people become naturalized it is often assumed the person taking on US citizenship will give up their original, but when in reverse it seems an unholy act
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:20
Serafina's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canton Geneve
Posts: 504
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 230 Times in 153 Posts
Serafina has earned the respect of manySerafina has earned the respect of manySerafina has earned the respect of many
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

I'd not want to give up any citizenship unless it was causing me some harm. I like keeping options open.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:24
Fridge's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 687
Groaned at 23 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 757 Times in 331 Posts
Fridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
I'd not want to give up any citizenship unless it was causing me some harm. I like keeping options open.
Ah, but I would count paying double (or close to it) taxes as causing harm.

Though in general I agree, why not keep the extra passports; you never know when it'll be useful.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:27
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
Why does it make me nervous that they want an email address to give you this free guide?
Dunno...seems they'd want your email address so they can offer you expatriation consultancy services. Seems pretty fair to me.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:30
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
I'd not want to give up any citizenship unless it was causing me some harm. I like keeping options open.
The more citizenships you have the less useful they are. You get much less diplomatic protection/assistance with many passports than you do with one clear definable citizenship. More than that, what's important is that you have one good, recognisable passport. Unless you live in the US, and don't have the option for a Swiss/Canadian/EU I have no idea why anyone would keep their US citizenship - taxes to a country you don't live in? Give me a break...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:33
Serafina's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canton Geneve
Posts: 504
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 230 Times in 153 Posts
Serafina has earned the respect of manySerafina has earned the respect of manySerafina has earned the respect of many
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
Ah, but I would count paying double (or close to it) taxes as causing harm.
yes, I'd have to agree with you here. It does hurt!

Quote:
View Post
Unless you live in the US, and don't have the option for a Swiss/Canadian/EU I have no idea why anyone would keep their US citizenship - taxes to a country you don't live in? Give me a break...
Yeah, it's painful. But for someone that wants to one day return, perhaps to retire, it's a necessity (I think?).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:35
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, it's painful. But for someone that wants to one day return, perhaps to retire, it's a necessity (I think?).
True, they're unlikely to look upon you kindly when they're handing out residence permits if you've given up citzenship. Although you can do your annual 3 month tourist visa if you're just looking to spend Autumn in New York for example.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:35
ThomasT's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Village
Posts: 732
Groaned at 30 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 569 Times in 286 Posts
ThomasT has an excellent reputationThomasT has an excellent reputationThomasT has an excellent reputationThomasT has an excellent reputation
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Life is unfair. For years I've been looking for a way to emigrate to the states, without success. And here you are, wanting to give up your citizenship

Let's trade passports if you like
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:37
Serafina's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canton Geneve
Posts: 504
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 230 Times in 153 Posts
Serafina has earned the respect of manySerafina has earned the respect of manySerafina has earned the respect of many
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
True, they're unlikely to look upon you kindly when they're handing out residence permits if you've given up citzenship. Although you can do your annual 3 month tourist visa if you're just looking to spend Autumn in New York for example.
Which is undeniably one of the nicest times/places to be in the states.

I've just realized that what I really need is tax-free citizenship in 4 different countries so that I can spend 3 months in each per year. Ideal.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:52
Peg A's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 4,422
Groaned at 158 Times in 125 Posts
Thanked 5,428 Times in 2,510 Posts
Peg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
In this case, expatriation means to give up your citizenship.
Yep, understood. Gives the distinct feeling they want to "get ya" coming and going, don't it?


Quote:
View Post
But they told you to call an immigration lawyer? Eeep. You'd think they could answer questions about how things are processed, what is needed, etc. If you do ever need one in the States, a friend of mine is one - let me know and I'll send you his way
That was my thought also, that they could at least answer simple and / or direct questions that have clear (easy) answers. Nope, no answers just "talk to lawyer".

Thanks, if it comes to that, will do.
As things are looking right now though, it really doesn't look so good for new immigrants heading to the US... I think we'll stick around here a bit.


Quote:
View Post
Lots of pepole give up citizenship for various reasons. Taxes, unhappy with the intrusion that brings, not feeling connected to the US, accidential citizens who don't want/need US citizenship, etc.

Funny, in the US when people become naturalized it is often assumed the person taking on US citizenship will give up their original, but when in reverse it seems an unholy act
Depending upon how things go here AND how things look like they'll head if hubby and I decide to give living in the US a go, I could see giving up my US citizenship so that my meager earnings are not made even more meager by paying taxes both here and there.
__________________
The Joys of Opticianry
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07.07.2010, 11:59
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
The more citizenships you have the less useful they are. You get much less diplomatic protection/assistance with many passports than you do with one clear definable citizenship. More than that, what's important is that you have one good, recognisable passport. Unless you live in the US, and don't have the option for a Swiss/Canadian/EU I have no idea why anyone would keep their US citizenship - taxes to a country you don't live in? Give me a break...

Yeah, I agree with you to some extent, and I am a US citizen. My husband is a dual US/EU citizen. He became a US citizen when we were talking about leaving the US because it was the easier path than giving up his green card. If you're leaving the US and plan never to return, it's one thing. But knowing that he has colleagues in the US, I still have family, we have friends in the US, and if Swiss academia goes to hell, then we might be back there anyway. It's a complicated decision. I know someone who is in a similar situation, but kept the green card, travels back to the US once a year and sort of lies about a US residence. USCIS is full of arbitrary people and has its share of buffoons, but they also have the power to make one's life miserable. I try not to mess with them directly.

I hate paying taxes to the US though, and I hate sending an FBAR, and if I live here long enough, I might become a Swiss citizen, who knows.

BTW, Peg if you want to move to the US with your husband, it should be fairly easy to get him a green card. If I remember correctly, you do have to show some evidence of the ability to support him financially for the first couple of years or something. An attorney can help, but there are lots of resources online. Just filling out the forms is a PITA (pain in the a$$), and you absolutely have to make sure you do everything correctly. But we did it and it's not that hard. (Well, we did it while in the US, but still). An attorney might be great for a consult (we did that a couple of times, at about $150 a pop), but both attorneys told us that we could pay them more than $1000, and we'd still have to fill out the forms ourselves and pay the fees on top of that.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07.07.2010, 12:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
Depending upon how things go here AND how things look like they'll head if hubby and I decide to give living in the US a go, I could see giving up my US citizenship so that my meager earnings are not made even more meager by paying taxes both here and there.
Truth be told, if you make less than $91K, you don't pay taxes.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07.07.2010, 12:30
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DK - previously Zug
Posts: 3,321
Groaned at 168 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 6,707 Times in 2,237 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
Truth be told, if you make less than $91K, you don't pay taxes.
It's even a bit more than that, as you're "allowed" to deduct your Swiss taxes from your earnings.

That said, their right to take my money is still bullhonkey.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07.07.2010, 12:32
evilshell's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK, formerly Basel
Posts: 3,347
Groaned at 97 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 3,093 Times in 1,341 Posts
evilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
That said, their right to take my money is still bullhonkey.
And nose about in your business with the FBAR stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07.07.2010, 13:08
rhk
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Something I don't get - how many citizens but not US-residents actually end up owing tax in the US? This was our first year we were filing taxes outside of the US, we had to pay around $130 but I think it was mostly due to our relo expenses. I don't think we will owe next year.

Personally, having to pay that much isn't the end of the world. But I wonder if it's higher for other people.

I agree, it's a pain to file, I don't like the FBAR, but I find in the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07.07.2010, 20:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Expatriation [giving up citizenship] for U.S. Citizens - How To Guide

Quote:
View Post
Something I don't get - how many citizens but not US-residents actually end up owing tax in the US? This was our first year we were filing taxes outside of the US, we had to pay around $130 but I think it was mostly due to our relo expenses. I don't think we will owe next year.

Personally, having to pay that much isn't the end of the world. But I wonder if it's higher for other people.

I agree, it's a pain to file, I don't like the FBAR, but I find in the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal?

We've discussed it before at length here.
NYTimes: More U.S. Expats giving up citizenship

Depending on your salary and deductions, it can amount to a significant chunk of change. If you're making under CHF 120 or so, it probably is a wash. More, depending on your circumstances may result in owing taxes to the US.

For some it is a duty, but for others, it is a questionable unfair practice.

There was a fairly lively discussion at the other thread, perhaps reading it will answer your question.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
expatriation, renouncing us citizenship




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NYTimes: More U.S. Expats giving up citizenship Mountainhugger Finance/banking/taxation 289 03.05.2010 23:49
internships for non Eu citizens n29raia Permits/visas/government 0 20.11.2009 12:03
EU Citizenship Mowvich Permits/visas/government 1 29.08.2008 16:45
Guide to Swiss social security for EU citizens [in English] dannyt986 Finance/banking/taxation 0 19.02.2008 15:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0