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View Poll Results: So how important is Marriage to you?
I strongly believe in it. 99 68.28%
It did not work out for me. 18 12.41%
I don't believe in marriages. 20 13.79%
we married to ease "visa work" and stay together 14 9.66%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 09.07.2010, 23:44
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

Marriage; they say that you have to work on it.

Why do I want to do unpaid overtime?
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  #62  
Old 10.07.2010, 08:24
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

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Done my best to explain why it isn't. Clearly my best isn't good enough
Well, it's probably my fault. I'm a bit fick, innit.

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But that difference is a big difference. As you say, in the case of marriage/divorce the legislative/judicial system dictate your rights and obligations. In contract law, the contracting parties themselves decide, subject always to unenforceability laws relating to unfairness, coercion etc
OK, now my fickness seems to have passed and I see what you're getting it. But I'm not convinced that it makes that much difference. In contract law there are already legal restrictions on rights and obligations. I could envisage the laws around marriage and divorce becoming less strong, which might lead to the situation you describe. I can't see any government wanting to bring in alongside the current system a new system for cohabitation. Too much difficulty in deciding what restrictions to put it, what to leave out. Too much political flak. Look at the outcry over pre-nups.

Personally, I think you'd be a bloody fool to enter into such a contract, because things change over time. Dramatically.

Generally, it's men are more resistent to marriage, because it restricts them more than it restricts women. You'll notice that it's mostly the men who've been making the witty (well, half-witty) comments - such as Cashboy's above. It's interesting that marriage has changed from ownership of women, into a covenant that protects women, by and large. There is no "being trapped in a bad marriage" in most modern countries.

As it stands, you know what the obligations and rights are. They might change over the course of the relationship as well, but it's unlikely they'll change radically. If you don't like those obligations and rights, you can either get them changed through political process, or not marry. It seems that some people want the benefits of marriage - tax, inheritance, immigration etc - without the duties, without the responsibilities. I don't think, ultimately, that would be good for society.
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  #63  
Old 10.07.2010, 14:49
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

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Amazing how you can make a statement in one breath and contradict it in the next
I was actually reinforcing it - as airy-fairy feelings that make you weak at the knees are not an action.
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  #64  
Old 10.07.2010, 15:10
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

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>snip!<
Generally, it's men are more resistent to marriage, because it restricts them more than it restricts women. >snip!<.
Do you think that's actually true in a modern marriage? Do you mean this in a legal sense or another?

In a legal sense I presume (and I may be wrong) that the perceived restriction is a financial one-- that the husband is bringing more money into the marriage and will therefore stand to 'lose' more should things go badly. But in reality this does not have to be the case. If both parties enter into the relationship-- even pre-marriage-- with the intention that it be a true partnership (in terms of financial responsibility as well as 'domestic' or child care responsibility) there is no reason it should be more restrictive to either party.

If, on the other hand, we are talking social constructs, 'freedom', etc I will leave the top firmly sealed on that particular can of worms.
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  #65  
Old 10.07.2010, 16:16
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

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I was a believer in marriage but not now. I think going through the process of a divorce makes you realise that 'Happy Ever After' is not validated by a piece of paper.


I am sorry; it did not work for you.
But I feel Marriage today is far more complex than in the 1950s or earlier. The roles for men and women were clearly defined. Each partner knew what was expected of him or her. People referred to men's work and women's work. If each partner filled those explicit expectations, there was a reasonably good chance that the marriage would endure. Even personality styles were prescribed. With the technological evolution, the women's movement and increased life expectancy came a profound change in these roles.

People began to question what they wanted out of marriage. Families relied more upon hired domestic help in the form of housekeepers, caregivers and day care to fulfil many of the customary roles. Marriage began to take on a different meaning and serve a different purpose than was traditionally the case. If we add to this mix the awareness that we simply live longer than in previous generations, it becomes obvious that "until death do us part" means a lot longer than at any time in history. When folks are living well into their 80s and marry in their 20s, the span of time could be over 60 years. It becomes possible for one to consider multiple long term relationships. People can consider one type of relationship for their childbearing years, and another type of relationship for the years afterwards. One can even consider having more than one family, i.e., raising children with more than one partner.

Despite all of these changes, most people enter marriage carrying with them many of the same beliefs appropriate for the previous traditional marriage. Their consciousness has not caught up with the reality of the times. Hence, when they marry they often find that their traditional beliefs are ineffective, leaving them with few guidelines on how to be in a marriage. Today's marriages, more than any time in history, depend upon more upon communication, intimacy, relating, compromise, negotiation and understanding. We must be able to negotiate in the living room and make love in the bedroom, and be skilled at both. Expectations in loving have similarly changed. Since love-making is no longer exclusively for the purpose of procreation, no longer just for a man's pleasure, and it is no longer expected that men be more knowledgeable and experienced then women, then couples expect more from one another, requiring greater communications between them.

Since both sexes are equally able to perform nearly all of the tasks required in a marriage, neither has to depend on the other for these abilities. Even the issue of having children no longer is necessary for marriage. People can choose to have children or not and can have children without having a partner..

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in fact, my view now is that without a piece of paper maybe couples try harder to make things work well?


But I would like to disagree, sometimes, remembering your vows can prompt you to push past problems and try to forgive and start again.
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  #66  
Old 10.07.2010, 16:27
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

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Do you think that's actually true in a modern marriage? Do you mean this in a legal sense or another?
I think it's in terms of perception. Women tend to want marriage because they feel it brings them security. Men tend to be resistent because they feel it brings responsibility. Obviously there are exceptions to this, hence the use of words like "generally" and "tend".

My marriage is not a partnership - it's closer than that. She's my spouse, my wife. I'm her spouse, her husband. We're not each other's partners.
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  #67  
Old 11.07.2010, 20:57
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

Oh yes I strongly believe in marriage! Plus I always said I will not have a baby if I'm not married! . It is just about MY moral values and the way I was raised- first I have a husband and then I have kids .
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  #68  
Old 11.07.2010, 22:18
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

I married a guy who (in my mind, now) was bi-polar. Nice one minute, violent the next. Did not realise this for a few years, even though i had been warned.

I loved him, he was my life, I could change him, etc. He did love me, but i think he hated me too. Verbal abuse, physical abuse etc. I left after 4 years of putting up with that crap.

We never divorced. 5 years later, on the first of April. There was a knock at the door, the police. My husband had died in an accident. I was his widow, even though each of us had gone our own way years before. I was a widow at the age of 37, no kids.

End of story - after all that bastard had put me through. I got the last laugh, his life insurance and his debts.

Sorry, that was meant to be tongue in cheek humour (even if the story is true).

Good luck to all you married or about to tie the knot people...
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  #69  
Old 11.07.2010, 22:42
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

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I married a guy who (in my mind, now) was bi-polar. Nice one minute, violent the next. Did not realise this for a few years, even though i had been warned.

I loved him, he was my life, I could change him, etc. He did love me, but i think he hated me too. Verbal abuse, physical abuse etc. I left after 4 years of putting up with that crap.

We never divorced. 5 years later, on the first of April. There was a knock at the door, the police. My husband had died in an accident. I was his widow, even though each of us had gone our own way years before. I was a widow at the age of 37, no kids.

End of story - after all that bastard had put me through. I got the last laugh, his life insurance and his debts.

Sorry, that was meant to be tongue in cheek humour (even if the story is true).

Good luck to all you married or about to tie the knot people...
Don't know what to say..it's just sad
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  #70  
Old 11.07.2010, 23:25
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

Women generally remember 3 things from their wedding days.

Aisle. Altar. Him.

Go on. Say them out loud.
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  #71  
Old 12.07.2010, 00:05
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

I was born and raised a Christian. But I have almost zero "ties" left to the religion now at the age of 33. I guess I could call myself Atheist, but I also respect other peoples choices in religious matters.

I don't want it pushed in my face, but if it makes someone happy, then by all means let them follow their religion with the faith they have.

With that said, I still like the idea of Marriage and I'd like to get married one day.

I like parties/festivals, and for me it is an occasion that unites two people (and their families) in a beautiful ceremony. It may follow a Christian, Jewish, Hindi or other type of "base" for the festival itself, but each of them are quite neat bringing two families together into a merry atmosphere. I think that in itself is really cute

I don't think I'd go all the way with a very complex party, but it's still cool opportunity for a little spice in life. And I've always been the kind that ends up devoting themselves to a single person when in a relationship, so this is a sort of "promise" to the other person, showing them that they're the one you're giving your body and soul (ok, so polyamourous people get married too and their idea of it all is different, but that's just my opinion).
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  #72  
Old 12.07.2010, 00:18
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

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I married a guy who (in my mind, now) was bi-polar. Nice one minute, violent the next. Did not realise this for a few years, even though i had been warned.

I loved him, he was my life, I could change him, etc. He did love me, but i think he hated me too. Verbal abuse, physical abuse etc. I left after 4 years of putting up with that crap.

We never divorced. 5 years later, on the first of April. There was a knock at the door, the police. My husband had died in an accident. I was his widow, even though each of us had gone our own way years before. I was a widow at the age of 37, no kids.

End of story - after all that bastard had put me through. I got the last laugh, his life insurance and his debts.

Sorry, that was meant to be tongue in cheek humour (even if the story is true).

Good luck to all you married or about to tie the knot people...
Yeah, it's not always all the rosy romantic stuff...Most people don't talk about it. At least you found the strength to leave the menace on your own and didn't stick around for longer..
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  #73  
Old 12.07.2010, 00:20
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

My husband was raised a Humanist, I was raised Catholic, had lapsed or relaxed by the time we married, and my dad was Jewish. When we decided to marry, there was no other choice - civil ceremony. So we went to the town in Holland where we planned to marry and picked out the person who would do the ceremony from a list of people authorized. We selected a high school teacher, female, with some English skills.

So we met her a couple of days before our wedding and she asked stuff like, what was the first thing you noticed about each other, what is your favorite thing about each other, and what makes you crazy about each other.

So, I have no memory of altar or aisle. I remember my husband. The small personal facts she got from us meant a lot to us, and to the people who were there, even if they weren't deep thoughts. I think she said just enough to let us impute the details and meaning.

And, add to that, we had great food in gorgeous surroundings, but everyone was relaxed. So it was fun, and completely ours. I think it was a good start.

Of course, this is the advantage when you get married a little older and pay for the wedding yourself.
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  #74  
Old 12.07.2010, 08:32
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

Is it just me, or is there a sense that for many people, marriage is a religious thing? Which is a bit odd considering it was (is) still quite popular in non-religious countries.
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  #75  
Old 12.07.2010, 08:55
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

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Is it just me, or is there a sense that for many people, marriage is a religious thing? Which is a bit odd considering it was (is) still quite popular in non-religious countries.
It's an interesting comment.

I always have linked marriage to religion -when I was younger- and to God now. (God is not religion)

it's like you have the legal contract for the administrations and the marriage itself.
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  #76  
Old 12.07.2010, 09:16
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

I am not religious and we had a simple civil ceremony. Besides the personal part, this is what marriage is for me - we are letting the state know that we are now together and all the rights and obligations of married people will apply to us. After all, you can have an excellent relationship as an unmarried couple, but in most countries you are still legally and practically in front of the authorities nobody to each other. All those visa topics here are a perfect example, where a piece of paper matters more than 10 years together and 2 kids..
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  #77  
Old 12.07.2010, 09:16
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

When I was a kid, I never really aspired to marry (for no particular reason really).

When I was 18, I moved out of my parent's house and lived with my now-ex boyfriend for 4 years. It was like one of the other posters above....I am sure he is bi polar; he could be nice one minute and violent the next. Lots of abuse and I finally got tired and left (yay). I had grown up in a very sheltered lifestyle and to experience something like that pretty much shattered me emotionally. I had lots of problems afterward, and of course was completely convinced that love doesn't exist.

To make a long story short, I worked through my problems and healed, and met a wonderful, amazing man who is completely the opposite of my ex. I knew in the beginning that I wanted to marry him (neither of us are religious btw). It hasn't been a cake walk so far- we spent 6 months apart, and are still sort of living apart for the next month and a half or so (due to his work; he is here on the weekends but stays closer to work during the week, until his work changes location to Konstanz which is right by where our apartment is) but I know without a doubt that this is the person I want to grow old with, and I have never felt that way before, nor did I imagine that I ever would
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  #78  
Old 02.03.2011, 16:39
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

I am bringing up this nice topic because I find it difficult to digest and find myself in what I read about how hard it is to find a date.


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My take on that is, most men think marriage is about making up with one woman, but its actually breaking up with all the rest
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I think it's in terms of perception. Women tend to want marriage because they feel it brings them security. Men tend to be resistent because they feel it brings responsibility. Obviously there are exceptions to this, hence the use of words like "generally" and "tend".

My marriage is not a partnership - it's closer than that. She's my spouse, my wife. I'm her spouse, her husband. We're not each other's partners.
This is coming from a wise man.

If people would really take time to bring something into the relationship instead to expect to get something from it, I believe that marriage would have a better rate of success.
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  #79  
Old 02.03.2011, 16:45
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

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If people would really take time to bring something into the relationship instead to expect to get something from it, I believe that marriage would have a better rate of success.

So true, Nils. I can only agree, being in a relationship/being married is so beautiful than being lonely and one should definitely make an effort to make it a success!
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  #80  
Old 02.03.2011, 16:54
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Re: So how important is Marriage to you?

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So true, Nils. I can only agree, being in a relationship/being married is so beautiful than being lonely and one should definitely make an effort to make it a success!
Yes,

We are in such a world now where everything as to be achieve, done, get very fast. And when something doesn't work the way we want, we throw it out right away! People are not ready to make sacrifice and work hard to get something, to keep something, to build something.
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