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Old 31.12.2010, 15:29
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flat quota: how many heads per m2?

Hi All,

I need some information: does anyone know in the Zurich area, if there is a limitation of how many people can live per m2 in one flat? Is it based on m2 or the number of rooms? or the conditions set out in the lease? (ie max 2 people in rental agreement) Does babies/toddlers/ kids count the same as an adult?

For example, would a family of 2 adults and 3 kids be allowed to stay in a 3.5 Room flat of approx 65m2?


Any info, links, hearsay would be greatly appreciated. I thought I read something on this before but can not get any successful hits with the search function.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Mimster; 31.12.2010 at 16:22. Reason: small edits
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Old 01.01.2011, 13:34
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Re: flat quota: how many heads per m2?

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Hi All,

I need some information: does anyone know in the Zurich area, if there is a limitation of how many people can live per m2 in one flat? Is it based on m2 or the number of rooms? or the conditions set out in the lease? (ie max 2 people in rental agreement) Does babies/toddlers/ kids count the same as an adult?

For example, would a family of 2 adults and 3 kids be allowed to stay in a 3.5 Room flat of approx 65m2?


Any info, links, hearsay would be greatly appreciated. I thought I read something on this before but can not get any successful hits with the search function.

Thanks in advance.
Not sure about the city itself, but here in Küsnacht, the gemeinde has specific rules about the maximum number of people allowed in a flat. 2 - 2.5 zimmers: 1 person, 3 - 3.5zimmer: 2 persons and so on...

http://www.kuesnacht.ch/xml_1/intern...d265/f2077.cfm

Under "Vermietungsrichtlinien von Gemeindewohnungen"

It wasnt stated in my rental contract specifically but you wont be able to register both names at the gemeinde as residents, if yours is a 2.5 zimmer flat as there cant be 2 people living in it officially. Not sure what part the rental agency plays in enforcing the rules although I know that my neighbour downstairs lives in a 2.5 zimmer with his girlfriend, full time but only his name is on the door. She probably has a different mailing address.

I think its best to check directly with the gemeinde of the place you are living / plan to move in to.
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Old 01.01.2011, 14:16
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Re: flat quota: how many heads per m2?

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Is it based on m2 or the number of rooms? or the conditions set out in the lease? (ie max 2 people in rental agreement)
The norm is 1 person per room but if your rental agreement specifically limits you to a set number of persons (irrelevant of the number of rooms) and you signed it then that's the agreed rental terms by all parties involved.
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Old 01.01.2011, 14:51
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Re: flat quota: how many heads per m2?

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Not sure about the city itself, but here in Küsnacht, the gemeinde has specific rules about the maximum number of people allowed in a flat. 2 - 2.5 zimmers: 1 person, 3 - 3.5zimmer: 2 persons and so on...

http://www.kuesnacht.ch/xml_1/intern...d265/f2077.cfm

Under "Vermietungsrichtlinien von Gemeindewohnungen"
a) The linked document applies to apartments rented from the Gemeinde Küsnacht only. It does not affect apartments rented from a private landlord.
b) The number of people per apartment stated in that document is the minimum occupancy. ("Die Zahl der im gemeinsamen Haushalt lebenden Personen hat mindestens der um eins verminderten Zahl der Zimmer zu entsprechen")

Cities, towns and cooperatives (Genossenschaften) often have minimum occupancy requirements for their own apartments. Sometimes they also have maximum income limits.

Otherwise it's a matter between you and the landlord. I'm not aware of any law which states specific minimum or maximum occupancy rules for apartments rented from a private landlord.

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For example, would a family of 2 adults and 3 kids be allowed to stay in a 3.5 Room flat of approx 65m2?
I think most landlords wouldn't allow so many people in such a tiny apartment. But some landlords don't really care much about such things as long as the rent is paid on time and the neighbors don't complain.

Last edited by Mark75; 01.01.2011 at 15:12. Reason: clarification
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Old 01.01.2011, 15:36
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Re: flat quota: how many heads per m2?

Thank you for all the initial replies. It is helpful to see what people's experience are. The situation is a bit complicated. My friend is thinking of buying a property and currently there is a family of 5 living in one of the flat. It is against what is written in the copy of the lease but he is not sure if the current landlord has known about this and did nothing, which means that by default the current owner accepted it. In any case the family has filed a request for extension to the notice given to them to move out due to the potential sale of the property. I think its time that my friend should contact a real estate lawyer to help with professional advice on the law and the process.

Thanks again, other comments welcome
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Old 01.01.2011, 18:08
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Re: flat quota: how many heads per m2?

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My friend is thinking of buying a property and currently there is a family of 5 living in one of the flat. It is against what is written in the copy of the lease but he is not sure if the current landlord has known about this and did nothing, which means that by default the current owner accepted it. In any case the family has filed a request for extension to the notice given to them to move out due to the potential sale of the property.
I don't quite get what your goal is. Do you want them out? Or are you just worried that there are too many people living in that apartment?

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I think its time that my friend should contact a real estate lawyer to help with professional advice on the law and the process.
Totally agree.
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Old 01.01.2011, 18:31
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Re: flat quota: how many heads per m2?

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a) The linked document applies to apartments rented from the Gemeinde Küsnacht only. It does not affect apartments rented from a private landlord.
b) The number of people per apartment stated in that document is the minimum occupancy. ("Die Zahl der im gemeinsamen Haushalt lebenden Personen hat mindestens der um eins verminderten Zahl der Zimmer zu entsprechen")

Cities, towns and cooperatives (Genossenschaften) often have minimum occupancy requirements for their own apartments. Sometimes they also have maximum income limits.

Otherwise it's a matter between you and the landlord. I'm not aware of any law which states specific minimum or maximum occupancy rules for apartments rented from a private landlord.



I think most landlords wouldn't allow so many people in such a tiny apartment. But some landlords don't really care much about such things as long as the rent is paid on time and the neighbors don't complain.
Mark, you are absolutely right - and it makes more sense. Especially this:

Die Zahl der im gemeinsamen Haushalt lebenden Personen hat mindestens der um eins verminderten Zahl der Zimmer zu entsprechen"

No use letting a 4.5 zimmer to just one person who wants lots of space when say, a family of 3-4 needs the space much more - be it council or cooperative housing. But still not sure why I've been told by the neighbour downstairs what I thought to be true initially as well. Curious!

Apologies for the inaccuracy Mimster.

Note to self: improve German reading skills and read documents much more thoroughly in future
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Old 01.01.2011, 18:49
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Re: flat quota: how many heads per m2?

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I don't quite get what your goal is. Do you want them out? Or are you just worried that there are too many people living in that apartment?
The intention of buying the property was to renovate. It came as a surprise that so many people were living in such a small apartment -more than what was allowed on the lease. Was wondering if there were legal guidelines on this, especially now that they are fighting the notice to vacate. Like I said, I think professional legal advice from a real estate lawyer will be needed.

Thanks.

Last edited by Longbyt; 01.01.2011 at 18:51. Reason: Please leave square brackets and their contents in place when shortening quotes.
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Old 01.01.2011, 20:00
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Re: flat quota: how many heads per m2?

If your friend buys the property with the intention of renovating it and living in it personally, the tenants can be given notice on these grounds. Even if your friend were to buy the property and assume the tenants and their existing lease, seeing as they are in breach of the lease conditions this would be a reason to be given notice.

It is not so easy to get tenants out just because a property is for sale. The buyer has to want the property for his own use. The tenants can fight a notice to vacate but the only thing they might achieve is a small extension, if there are good grounds (children not wanting to change schools until the end of the school year). Seeing as they are breaking the lease terms I cannot imagine this will help their case.
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Old 02.01.2011, 00:14
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Re: flat quota: how many heads per m2?

Thanks Mrs. Doolittle. From what I understood, I think the family has a strong case. They have lived there for like 20 years, the rent was never raised from 1991 (so its way below market), they have three kids all of school age and they are asking to be allowed to stay the maximum 4 year extension. I think they should be given more time than the typical 3 monhs notice, but 4 years seems to be a bit excessive to me.

My friend was planning on renovating and converting the small flats into a big one (building is very old and last renovations was 25 years ago) and moving in there himself but he is single and I think this will work against him. I think he has to get legal advice before he finalize whether or not it is worth the purchase.
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Old 02.01.2011, 01:03
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Re: flat quota: how many heads per m2?

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My friend was planning on renovating and converting the small flats into a big one (building is very old and last renovations was 25 years ago) and moving in there himself but he is single and I think this will work against him.
If he owns the building there's no law that says he can't live in his own home alone. I own a 5 room, 2 bath apartment and have no problem living in it alone. Your friend should be able to remove the present tenants (within a reasonable time frame) if he plans on living in the apartment himself.
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