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  #61  
Old 12.10.2008, 17:28
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

Whatever you do, don't let the landlord blame you and try to claim for the costs.

I lived in an apartment for 1 year, and as I came to move out the following year, he tried to blame me for the grey corners in one room, saying I didn't air enough (I did, religiously, as I was married to a Swiss!!)
Anyway, we contacted the Mietamt in our community (the Mietverband will only help if you are a member) and they decided that as it was an out-facing wall,
it was most likely an insulation fault.
How old is your flat? This also makes a difference. The landlord tried to blame us for marks on the carpet which itself was already 20 years old at the time!!!
Can you believe it?!
Happily, in the end, we didn't have to shoulder any of the costs, for which we anyway weren't responsible ,and the Mietamt were a great help and very fair.

Good luck!
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Old 12.10.2008, 18:20
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

The flat is not so old. The building dates from the 1970s, I believe. Apart from the mould, the flooring's in good condition so I'd guess it was renewed within the past 5-10 years.

Having spent a chunk of time today shuffling around on my knees, peering closely at the floor throughout I can confirm the mould is limited to the living room, only round the 'back' wall and then down the side wall to the balcony door. The side wall is definitely an internal wall since it's shared with the kitchen. I'm not sure about the back wall but I think it's external.

I'm reaching the point where I'd pay for someone to come in and get rid of the mould just so I wouldn't feel so ill anymore. However I'm tight-fisted and honestly believe it is the landlord's responsibility to provide, in return for my rent payment, a dwelling which is wind and water tight and does not pose a hazard to my health.

I'm guessing I've got a fairly severe allergic thing going on - I already take anti-inflammatories and immunosuppressants for an auto-immune condition so any symptoms that can break through the drugs must be pretty determined symptoms.

I'll try first with the relo agent simply talking to the landlords. I hate to go straight in from the first playing hardball. If the landlord doesn't 'do the right thing', that's when I start on the doctor's reports, registered letters, etc.

I just want to not feel so horribly ill anymore.

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Whatever you do, don't let the landlord blame you and try to claim for the costs.

I lived in an apartment for 1 year, and as I came to move out the following year, he tried to blame me for the grey corners in one room, saying I didn't air enough (I did, religiously, as I was married to a Swiss!!)
Anyway, we contacted the Mietamt in our community (the Mietverband will only help if you are a member) and they decided that as it was an out-facing wall,
it was most likely an insulation fault.
How old is your flat? This also makes a difference. The landlord tried to blame us for marks on the carpet which itself was already 20 years old at the time!!!
Can you believe it?!
Happily, in the end, we didn't have to shoulder any of the costs, for which we anyway weren't responsible ,and the Mietamt were a great help and very fair.

Good luck!
  #63  
Old 12.10.2008, 18:32
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

I read your post and saw the pictures .

I would give the landlord exactly one chance to fix it, have it in writing, make sure they understand the seriousness of the situation (and your medical problems) ... if the fuzzy stuff grows back ... get the heck out of there.
  #64  
Old 12.10.2008, 20:53
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Re: schimmel [mould] problem with landlord

Thank you whichever mod merged my mould thread with the existing one. I'm sure I searched for a 'mould' tag before I started mine but I was in a state of mild panic so maybe not.
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Old 12.10.2008, 21:20
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

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Having spent a chunk of time today shuffling around on my knees, peering closely at the floor throughout I can confirm the mould is limited to the living room, only round the 'back' wall and then down the side wall to the balcony door. The side wall is definitely an internal wall since it's shared with the kitchen. I'm not sure about the back wall but I think it's external.

I'm reaching the point where I'd pay for someone to come in and get rid of the mould just so I wouldn't feel so ill anymore. However I'm tight-fisted and honestly believe it is the landlord's responsibility to provide, in return for my rent payment, a dwelling which is wind and water tight and does not pose a hazard to my health.

I'll try first with the relo agent simply talking to the landlords. I hate to go straight in from the first playing hardball. If the landlord doesn't 'do the right thing', that's when I start on the doctor's reports, registered letters, etc.
This seems to confirm my first thoughts that the problem is due to the floor having got wet, possibly from under the balcony door, or possibly a spill etc. I still do not think that the problem is as serious as rising damp, if that is any consolation.

One point that you haven't mentioned: Are you on the ground floor? If not, then rising damp is extremely unlikely in this situation.

Good luck with the landlord tomorrow.

Rod
  #66  
Old 12.10.2008, 21:40
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

I'm on the first floor above the ground floor so should be safe from rising damp.

I tried to track the outline of affected areas earlier but couldn't track how it could've begun and spread. The biggest patch (about 1.5m x 1.5m) lies toward the rear left corner of the room, opposite the balcony door.


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One point that you haven't mentioned: Are you on the ground floor? If not, then rising damp is extremely unlikely in this situation.

Good luck with the landlord tomorrow.

Rod
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Old 12.10.2008, 22:56
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Re: schimmel [mould] problem with landlord

Scoobysue

Here's the link to the page to sign up for the Mieterverband in Basel:

http://www.mieterverband.ch/bs_mitgliedschaft.0.html

If you have no luck with the Landlord first time around, then you send another registered letter threatening with paying your rent into the mediation authority account and going to mediation. This may get your landlord to focus....
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Old 13.10.2008, 01:54
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

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I thought as much! About it being spotless for when I moved in. Right enough, although I paid rent from 1 August I couldn't get the keys till the 8th. This apparently was so cleaners could gain access. I have to wonder what exactly the cleaners did while they were here, ate cookies?
If you paid rent from the 1st of August, you were entitled to the keys and the right to take over the apartment from that date. Otherwise your rent for the month should have been pro-rated, unless you agreed from the outset to accept the keys 8 days later. It doesn't take 8 days to clean an apartment. Cleaning companies know they have a limited time to clean and the job is done in a day, even half a day, if they add more people.

Most cleaning companies give a guarantee, and if the work is not satisfactory, they must put things right. Your relocation agent should know all this. Usually the cleaning company representative attends when the person moving out is giving back the keys, to be sure the cleaning is acceptable. If the new tenant is getting the keys immediately afterwards, I have had situations where the cleaning company person hung around to be sure I was satisified. I have a reputation for being extemely fussy....

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At that time, as now, I had to just trust my relocation agent to act and advise in my best interests.
The alternative is to cut her out the loop and handle it myself. Unfortunately, I don't speak German so my registered letter would be in either French or English
It sounds like you didn't get the service you should have, but this is a common complaint on the forum where people have complained their relocation agent was useless. It's your relocation agent's job to deal with this situation on your behalf. That is what they get paid for. Any relocation agent who thinks their job is finished the minute you've got the keys is only interested in sending you (or your company) an invoice.

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I don't know if it's the power of suggestion or something but I felt dreadful when I woke up today - barely able to breathe, scratchy throat, mouth all swollen up. At least it's bright and mild today - I've got all the windows and both balcony doors wide open to let the mould spores escape.
Mould is a serious health issue, not to be taken lightly.

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How do I join this mieterverband, please? I searched it on the forum but only found other threads advising joining, nothing about how to!
Someone has posted the details. But in the meantime, get the relocation agent to deal with the landlord on this issue ASAP.

I wouldn't attempt to clean the floors yourself at all. An expert needs to see the floors and any cleaning and repairs need to be dealt with by a professional. I hope this gets resolved very soon.
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Old 13.10.2008, 10:36
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Re: schimmel [mould] problem with landlord

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Scoobysue

Here's the link to the page to sign up for the Mieterverband in Basel:

http://www.mieterverband.ch/bs_mitgliedschaft.0.html
Thank you. That's done. I'd found the actual site through Google but couldn't find the sign-up page from there. Well, I assume so, since I completed a form with name, address, etc. From what I could gather (my reading of German is only thanks to my ability to read Old English), it's only 72 francs a year for membership. That's good value.

I left all my windows open overnight and feel almost human this morning. Looks like fresh air is my friend.

As for my relo agent, no reply yet to my email but I'll give her a call to chase things.
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Old 13.10.2008, 12:14
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

Yep, I thought as much at the time. But I figured it was worth it to secure the apartment and have one less headache.

As for the cleaning of the mould - partly I want it done 'expertly' so it's definitely gone but mostly I just don't want the hassle and exertion of moving furniture to get to the floor then physically cleaning it up and putting back all the furniture. My excuse? I'm not well enough to do that thanks to the mould allergy.

The relo agent's 'on vacation' but she's left the email from me for a colleague to deal with on Wednesday. If it's the colleague I'm thinking of, she's the more efficient of the two and is more likely to be assertive with the landlord. Meantime I've got a doc's appointment Wednesday to find out if I can do or take anything to alleviate the symptoms until the mould's gone - or if, eek, there's any (risk of) longer term damage after weeks of inflammation.

What really bugs me is that every medical website lists 'weight loss' under mould allergy symptoms and I've not lost an ounce even though I could do with dropping 20 pounds or so.

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If you paid rent from the 1st of August, you were entitled to the keys and the right to take over the apartment from that date. Otherwise your rent for the month should have been pro-rated, unless you agreed from the outset to accept the keys 8 days later.
I wouldn't attempt to clean the floors yourself at all. An expert needs to see the floors and any cleaning and repairs need to be dealt with by a professional. I hope this gets resolved very soon.
  #71  
Old 13.10.2008, 22:25
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

[QUOTE=Scoobysue;330203]Yep, I thought as much at the time. But I figured it was worth it to secure the apartment and have one less headache.

As for the cleaning of the mould - partly I want it done 'expertly' so it's definitely gone but mostly I just don't want the hassle and exertion of moving furniture to get to the floor then physically cleaning it up and putting back all the furniture. My excuse? I'm not well enough to do that thanks to the mould allergy.

-----

Make sure you keep airing the flat even though you may not feel strong enough to do all the cleaning of the mould. That helps a lot. The mould remover is not as expensive so you might be able to wear a mask and clean up a bit.
  #72  
Old 13.10.2008, 23:18
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

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Make sure you keep airing the flat .
I've not shut my windows for days now! Although it's a bit too close to freezing for my tastes, I can breathe again and I don't have that awful drag-down from fatigue. The forecast is for mild days & nights for the rest of the week so I figure I'm okay to wait for relo agent #2 to get back to me on Wednesday. If there's no joy then regarding the landlord getting someone in then I'll try the tea tree mix someone posted higher up the thread. I love the smell of tea tree, I know it's an effective antibacterial and skeeshing a spray bottle is hardly strenuous. I could always invite my friends over to move furniture for me

I think I'm in with the mieterverband - they emailed (in English) to say they could not correspond in English but their hotline will be able to advise me in English. So I guess I wait for the bill, pay it then get on the phone.

Last edited by evilshell; 13.10.2008 at 23:20. Reason: fixed quote tag
  #73  
Old 13.10.2008, 23:41
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

I think I'm in with the mieterverband - they emailed (in English) to say they could not correspond in English but their hotline will be able to advise me in English. So I guess I wait for the bill, pay it then get on the phone.[/QUOTE]

---

Good job joining the verband..they did write a letter for me with reference to the mould in the summer of 2007.
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Old 13.10.2008, 23:45
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

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I've not shut my windows for days now! Although it's a bit too close to freezing for my tastes, I can breathe again and I don't have that awful drag-down from fatigue. The forecast is for mild days & nights for the rest of the week so I figure I'm okay to wait for relo agent #2 to get back to me on Wednesday. If there's no joy then regarding the landlord getting someone in then I'll try the tea tree mix someone posted higher up the thread. I love the smell of tea tree, I know it's an effective antibacterial and skeeshing a spray bottle is hardly strenuous. I could always invite my friends over to move furniture for me

I think I'm in with the mieterverband - they emailed (in English) to say they could not correspond in English but their hotline will be able to advise me in English. So I guess I wait for the bill, pay it then get on the phone.
The first step is to notify the landlord in writing and your relo agent should do this in German on your behalf. The landlord has to be given a reasonable deadline to get the problem looked at by an expert and eventually resolved. If you end up taking your landlord to the Schlichtungsbehörde (that has been discussed here in a number of threads)you will need a paper trail. A phone call is fine, but you need a letter, I would send it registered, so the landlord cannot deny that he was advised of the problem.

As tempted as you are to clean the floor, don't. It is evidence, so to speak. Hopefully the landlord will get onto this right away and in the meantime the weather will stay mild so you can keep the windows open. The thing to watch for is whether it gets much worse when it rains. If it does, it could be the rain is finding a way in, perhaps under the balcony door frame.
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Old 14.10.2008, 15:29
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Re: Mould - how do I kill it?

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As tempted as you are to clean the floor, don't. It is evidence, so to speak. Hopefully the landlord will get onto this right away and in the meantime the weather will stay mild so you can keep the windows open. The thing to watch for is whether it gets much worse when it rains. If it does, it could be the rain is finding a way in, perhaps under the balcony door frame.
I'm so glad to read that, having been on a major guilt trip today about not cleaning it up! It's one of those vicious circle things, I'm tired from the allergy so I need to rest but the place I'm resting is the place that's making me ill.
  #76  
Old 16.10.2008, 21:44
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Re: schimmel [mould] problem with landlord

The mould saga goes on...

The relo agent just called and the landlord agency people want to bring over a flooring expert for a look-see. As I gather, this is to establish the cause and, if necessary, replace the floor. This amazing event will require the following attendees: me, relo agent, expert, landlord agency people x2 so scheduling may be a nightmare.

It's a step forward though. If nothing else, once the 'evidence' has been seen and studied and conclusions reached, I can launch 'operation mould anihillation' Needless to say, open windows and magic medicine from the doc are making me feel a lot better than I did 48 hours ago.
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Old 16.10.2008, 22:30
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Re: schimmel [mould] problem with landlord

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The mould saga goes on...

The relo agent just called and the landlord agency people want to bring over a flooring expert for a look-see. As I gather, this is to establish the cause and, if necessary, replace the floor. This amazing event will require the following attendees: me, relo agent, expert, landlord agency people x2 so scheduling may be a nightmare.

It's a step forward though. If nothing else, once the 'evidence' has been seen and studied and conclusions reached, I can launch 'operation mould anihillation' Needless to say, open windows and magic medicine from the doc are making me feel a lot better than I did 48 hours ago.
Sounds like things are moving in the right direction. You should not clean the mould, let the experts deal with it. If the floor needs to be replaced, first the tiles will be lifted and the concrete below needs to be dry before a new floor can be installed. They can speed the drying process by bringing in industrial dehumidifiers. Likely there is mould underneath and that needs to be dealt with before a new floor can be installed. I just hope they find the underlying cause or the problem could return.

Glad to hear you are feeling better.
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Old 17.10.2008, 02:42
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Re: schimmel [mould] problem with landlord

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Sounds like things are moving in the right direction. You should not clean the mould, let the experts deal with it. If the floor needs to be replaced, first the tiles will be lifted and the concrete below needs to be dry before a new floor can be installed. They can speed the drying process by bringing in industrial dehumidifiers. Likely there is mould underneath and that needs to be dealt with before a new floor can be installed. I just hope they find the underlying cause or the problem could return.

Glad to hear you are feeling better.
Exactly, I agree. Hopefully this will happen quickly. Don't let it drag on.

Rod
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Old 17.10.2008, 22:44
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Re: schimmel [mould] problem with landlord

oops. Earlier in the week I'd tried an experiment with two different household sprays on two mould patches - spraying the product and leaving it overnight. I noticed when I got in today that there was a dark mark, like a tea spill stain, on the patch where I'd tried the power spray. After unsuccessful attempts to clean it, I noticed the texture of the mark felt rough. I'd assumed the sprays had evaporated overnight and not wiped over the experiment patch. With full sun today, I think the dried out product has burnt off the varnish of the floor tile.

Obviously, I have to mention it for the expert visit which is on Monday. I can't be here due to a work commitment so the relo agent is handling it. I think I just blew my chances of being the one in the right on this mould issue.

In the meantime, is there any kind of 'floor restorer' product I could pick up and try tomorrow?
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Old 17.10.2008, 23:11
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Re: schimmel [mould] problem with landlord

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oops. Earlier in the week I'd tried an experiment with two different household sprays on two mould patches - spraying the product and leaving it overnight. I noticed when I got in today that there was a dark mark, like a tea spill stain, on the patch where I'd tried the power spray. After unsuccessful attempts to clean it, I noticed the texture of the mark felt rough. I'd assumed the sprays had evaporated overnight and not wiped over the experiment patch. With full sun today, I think the dried out product has burnt off the varnish of the floor tile.

Obviously, I have to mention it for the expert visit which is on Monday. I can't be here due to a work commitment so the relo agent is handling it. I think I just blew my chances of being the one in the right on this mould issue.

In the meantime, is there any kind of 'floor restorer' product I could pick up and try tomorrow?
From bad to worse eh? Just get some normal wooden floor cleaner polish - the one you mix with water to you wash the wooden floors with(white in colour).. pour some direct from the bottle on to the patch and rub it in, let it dry and repeat a few times.. you'll soon restore the polish just don't go near the mould. I don't think you've blown your chances at all after all the mould isn't your doing and you can't be blame for trying to get rid of it. Good luck on Monday.
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