Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 15.03.2011, 09:58
seyon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Olten
Posts: 471
Groaned at 15 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 128 Times in 74 Posts
seyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeable
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Mieterverbrand told me the only thing they can do is helping me to arrange a meeting with a lawyer in zurich (that I will have to pay). Not much help from them...
So, I decide to contact my friend who is a lawyer and she is going to handle everyting for me. I am going as far as necesary. These people can not laugh at me because I am foreigner and don't speak german!!!!!
So, the next thing this woman will hear from me will be my lawyer.
I will tell here how the thing finish...
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 15.03.2011, 10:18
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,416
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 10,888 Times in 3,249 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

So far I haven't seen that anyone is 'laughing at you because you are a foreigner.' Where do you get that impression?

It seems to me that you and your landlady simply disagree on what damage is 'normal' and what is 'excessive'. Of course she wants to have everything possible marked as 'excessive' so that she can charge you for repairs and have everything perfect again for the next tenant - and of course you want to have everything marked as 'normal' so that you get your whole deposit back. But it doesn't seem to be personal or xenophobic, and it would be a shame if you took it that way.

How much money are we talking about, anyway? If it's only a couple hundred francs, I'd honestly suggest you drop it. If you keep chasing it, maybe you will get a few francs back, or maybe you will not get anything. If you were only in the apartment three years, you probably don't have a very good case, as the expected wear and tear is very light. For example, the enamel on a bathtub is supposed to last 20 years (source) - so unless it was 17 years old already when you moved in... (How old was it when you moved in? It is good to have the age of everything noted on the handover protocol, for exactly these situations.)

In any case, whatever you get back will certainly not be enough to pay for the stress and time it will cost you. It's not personal so don't take it personally... think logically instead, and decide whether it really makes economic sense for you to fight this.
__________________
Need help? Contact a mod.

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 15.03.2011, 10:32
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,359
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
So far I haven't seen that anyone is 'laughing at you because you are a foreigner.' Where do you get that impression?

It seems to me that you and your landlady simply disagree on what damage is 'normal' and what is 'excessive'. Of course she wants to have everything possible marked as 'excessive' so that she can charge you for repairs and have everything perfect again for the next tenant - and of course you want to have everything marked as 'normal' so that you get your whole deposit back. But it doesn't seem to be personal or xenophobic, and it would be a shame if you took it that way.

How much money are we talking about, anyway? If it's only a couple hundred francs, I'd honestly suggest you drop it. If you keep chasing it, maybe you will get a few francs back, or maybe you will not get anything. If you were only in the apartment three years, you probably don't have a very good case, as the expected wear and tear is very light. For example, the enamel on a bathtub is supposed to last 20 years (source) - so unless it was 17 years old already when you moved in... (How old was it when you moved in? It is good to have the age of everything noted on the handover protocol, for exactly these situations.)

In any case, whatever you get back will certainly not be enough to pay for the stress and time it will cost you. It's not personal so don't take it personally... think logically instead, and decide whether it really makes economic sense for you to fight this.
I agree with Mathnut 100%.

The problem here is not being foreigners but you not knowing the rules and how things are taking care here. If you did joined the Tennant group long time ago, they would have been a great help for you today. But you want to join them when you are in trouble at the end of your contract.

When we moved in our appartment, I took picture of EVERYTHING that could be a problem at the end. When we left our old appartment, I took pictures of everything, from the little scratch to the little tiny whole where the picture frame was, to the spot of the wall, etc. When they came to us saying they had to repaint everything new, I knew they were wrong, they couldn't prove it but I could! And I wan and got my whole deposit back. Yes it took a year to get it back because they tried to pull out every little things to get money from us (They do that to everybody, not only foreigners.... The only problems is when foreigners don't know, it is easy to get abused and many want to get rid of the problem instead to fight back.)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 15.03.2011, 10:37
miss_bean's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 525
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 224 Posts
miss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputation
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Just a thought, probably the lady is right, (assuming this is your first move) there could be scope of you going wrong in handling her expectations

What I have learnt so far is :
1. Have pictures of what you think is broken or damaged, mail them keep a copy when you move.
2. Be prepared to "lose" your deposit or some part of it (couple hundred francs) for cleaning any damages etc. cleaning and maintenance is highly subjective
3. Mold is a serious problem, they get annoyed to see it and will charge you, you should inform them immediately if you see the problem.
4. Have your house insurance, any damages are taken care of and if they come up with ridiculous charges, it can save you a lot.
5. Furnished rooms, there is always more scope of "damages" . I would be mentally prepared to "lose more money" if I am renting out furnished apartment.
6. I would not "fight" with the agencies, as they are also provide future references for home rental agencies. I would negotiate the charges.

Good luck!

Last edited by miss_bean; 15.03.2011 at 11:08.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 15.03.2011, 10:44
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,351
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
Mieterverbrand told me the only thing they can do is helping me to arrange a meeting with a lawyer in zurich (that I will have to pay). Not much help from them...
So, I decide to contact my friend who is a lawyer and she is going to handle everyting for me. I am going as far as necesary. These people can not laugh at me because I am foreigner and don't speak german!!!!!
So, the next thing this woman will hear from me will be my lawyer.
I will tell here how the thing finish...
seyon, Mathnut is right. I think right now, you should calm down and re-evaluate if fighting this battle is going to win you the war.

going to a lawyer is all good because you'll have someone fighting your corner but the ends might not justify the means - ie: your fees might come up to costing EVEN MORE than what your landlady has taken off from your deposit.

Right now, I would simply re-look at the list and evaluate what charges can be negotiated down. For example, she stated that there was an 8 hours cleaning bill? Ask her to produce that. Two can play the "anal" game - you'll just have to do it with gritted teeth. Ask her to list down what constituted 8 hours of cleaning because you feel that you didnt leave the apartment in a tip and you really want to know why there was an 8 hour clean job - all politely of course.

Seems like thats the major chunk of the bill. If she reduces it, I would personally walk away and chalk it up as housing/rental experience. Be sure to take pictures of EVERYTHING for your next apartment, get home insurance and join the mieterverband!!! She doesnt sound very unreasonable or rude in her reply to you - the fact that she took the time to reply and explain is a good sign. Going down the legal route will only irritate her. My 2 rappens. good luck!

PS: if it helps, my cleaning bill for a 3.5 zimmer apartment that lasted me 5 hours cost me 800 CHF (with a cleaning company) - thats double of what your landlady has charged.
__________________
Remember when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown, BUT it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and b****-slap the mother-f***er upside the head.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 15.03.2011, 10:49
seyon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Olten
Posts: 471
Groaned at 15 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 128 Times in 74 Posts
seyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeable
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Yes, I take it personaly because is not a problem of considering the damage excesive or normal. Damage I have done, damage that I will pay it.

The only thing that piss me off is that she is charging me for things that are not true. Most of the things she is charging me ARE NOT IN THE PROTOCOL! She is even trying to charge for a month of rent of the Keller that I HAVE NOT USE IT!! Not only not use it, I even did not have the key!!

The mould problem is clearly a building problem (a big hole in the fachade of the building exactly in the place where the mould is in the inside). And she said probably is my fault so I have to pay. I have emailed her as soon as the problem started and it took her 1 year to send someone to painted (just before I was leaving). They even never looked for the reason.

I things is normal to take it personal!!
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 15.03.2011, 10:55
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,351
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
The only thing that piss me off is that she is charging me for things that are not true. Most of the things she is charging me ARE NOT IN THE PROTOCOL! She is even trying to charge for a month of rent of the Keller that I HAVE NOT USE IT!! Not only not use it, I even did not have the key!!
So go back, give her a call and ask if you could meet up to discuss each item in detail - and explain calmly why you dont think you should be responsible if the contract doesnt state so!
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 15.03.2011, 10:56
miss_bean's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 525
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 224 Posts
miss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputation
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
Yes, I take it personaly because is not a problem of considering the damage excesive or normal. Damage I have done, damage that I will pay it.

The only thing that piss me off is that she is charging me for things that are not true. Most of the things she is charging me ARE NOT IN THE PROTOCOL! She is even trying to charge for a month of rent of the Keller that I HAVE NOT USE IT!! Not only not use it, I even did not have the key!!

The mould problem is clearly a building problem (a big hole in the fachade of the building exactly in the place where the mould is in the inside). And she said probably is my fault so I have to pay. I have emailed her as soon as the problem started and it took her 1 year to send someone to painted (just before I was leaving). They even never looked for the reason.

I things is normal to take it personal!!
Sorry , a question do kellar/cellar and apartment are separately charged? I always have them tied to my apartment's rent, even if I dont use it , it is part of my monthly rent. It is simply not possible to rent out cellars no
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank miss_bean for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 15.03.2011, 11:06
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,416
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 10,888 Times in 3,249 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Does your rental agreement include a 'Keller' or 'Kellerabteil'? If so, then it doesn't matter whether you used it, had a key, or not - you still have to pay.

Mold does sound like it might be a problem with the building. Did you take photos of the damaged facade and corresponding mold spots inside? Send them to her now, along with a forwarded copy of the email (to remind her that you did mention it and she is the one who didn't investigate further.)

Is there absolutely no mold anywhere else in the apartment? If there is mold in other places too - even a little bit - she can point triumphantly to that mold and say see, it was your fault, so you still have to pay. If that's the case then do not waste your time fighting this one.

I understand you're upset about this but (from what you've told me so far) it has nothing to do with you personally, with your being a foreigner, not speaking German, etc. She would give a Swiss tenant exactly the same hassle (except that a Swiss tenant would probably know to expect this and get insurance ahead of time, hire a cleaning company, etc. But now you know all that too - next time won't be as bad.)

Look, you are stressed. You are so stressed you are doubling your punctuation and wondering about ulcers. Forget whether she is right or wrong, reasonable or unreasonable. Would it be worth two or three hundred francs to just make all this go away? The price of a weekend away... except if you take the weekend away you still have to come back to all this stress. If you just pay it - that's it. Gone. Finished. You can relax and not spend the next twelve months (and it will take twelve months) dealing with lawyers and Mieterverbands and all the rest. Think about it.
__________________
Need help? Contact a mod.

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 15.03.2011, 11:06
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,089
Groaned at 485 Times in 404 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
Yes, I take it personaly because is not a problem of considering the damage excesive or normal. Damage I have done, damage that I will pay it.

The only thing that piss me off is that she is charging me for things that are not true. Most of the things she is charging me ARE NOT IN THE PROTOCOL! She is even trying to charge for a month of rent of the Keller that I HAVE NOT USE IT!! Not only not use it, I even did not have the key!!

The mould problem is clearly a building problem (a big hole in the fachade of the building exactly in the place where the mould is in the inside). And she said probably is my fault so I have to pay. I have emailed her as soon as the problem started and it took her 1 year to send someone to painted (just before I was leaving). They even never looked for the reason.

I things is normal to take it personal!!

the you have to consider just how much you are prepared to pay because of this personal insult, don't forget if you take it all the way, and lose, then you'll have to pay her legal fee's as well.

sometimes its just better to walk away knowing you're in the right.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 15.03.2011, 11:45
seyon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Olten
Posts: 471
Groaned at 15 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 128 Times in 74 Posts
seyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeable
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
- and explain calmly
I have latin blood...I have to count 10.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 15.03.2011, 11:46
seyon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Olten
Posts: 471
Groaned at 15 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 128 Times in 74 Posts
seyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeable
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
Sorry , a question do kellar/cellar and apartment are separately charged? I always have them tied to my apartment's rent, even if I dont use it , it is part of my monthly rent. It is simply not possible to rent out cellars no
I thought it was included, but when I ask for the keys of it (one month after start in the appartment) she ask me for 20 CHF a month extra for having it. So I was paying extra 20 CHF during all my stay.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 15.03.2011, 11:58
seyon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Olten
Posts: 471
Groaned at 15 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 128 Times in 74 Posts
seyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeable
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
the you have to consider just how much you are prepared to pay because of this personal insult, don't forget if you take it all the way, and lose, then you'll have to pay her legal fee's as well.

sometimes its just better to walk away knowing you're in the right.
I think anyone should get tired of trying to make the truth seen. Fight sometimes is necessary.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 15.03.2011, 12:12
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,089
Groaned at 485 Times in 404 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
I think anyone should get tired of trying to make the truth seen. Fight sometimes is necessary.

that's all well and good in an ideal world, but in the world we live in lawyers want paying, the legal process costs, so how much is it worth to you? not only in money but time, effort, stress.

if its 1k chf for example then its really not worth the bother, take it as a lesson and use swisscaution for your deposit next time, and get insurance, then when you leave you just pass it all onto the insurance company to deal with, if they pay out then more fool them.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 15.03.2011, 12:16
miss_bean's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 525
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 224 Posts
miss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputationmiss_bean has an excellent reputation
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
I think anyone should get tired of trying to make the truth seen. Fight sometimes is necessary.

If you have already decided to fight then it is useless for us to help/post ideas anyways..

Let us know, if it does any good to you in the end.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank miss_bean for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 15.03.2011, 13:28
seyon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Olten
Posts: 471
Groaned at 15 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 128 Times in 74 Posts
seyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeable
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

I apreciate each word from all you. You really help me.
But I think we can not just look away when people abuse of power or doing unfairly (I am talking general not about my case).

Many of you suggest just to go on and do not think more in my money, but that doesn't go with me. I will assume that I lost the money when I can not do anymore...As I said before It is not the 1150CHF she wants to keep. It is the unfair of some points. She can not just go that easily. But that is what I think, I know you do not agree. Probably a cultural difference between latin and anglosajon. To me it will be a longer stress to remember everyday what happened. Making action I feel better and at the end even If I do not win anything at least I will feel calmer because I did what I could.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 15.03.2011, 15:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,184
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 72 Posts
danny has earned some respectdanny has earned some respect
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
I apreciate each word from all you. You really help me.
But I think we can not just look away when people abuse of power or doing unfairly (I am talking general not about my case).

Many of you suggest just to go on and do not think more in my money, but that doesn't go with me. I will assume that I lost the money when I can not do anymore...As I said before It is not the 1150CHF she wants to keep. It is the unfair of some points. She can not just go that easily. But that is what I think, I know you do not agree. Probably a cultural difference between latin and anglosajon. To me it will be a longer stress to remember everyday what happened. Making action I feel better and at the end even If I do not win anything at least I will feel calmer because I did what I could.
I'd say fight if you wish but not with a lawyer as that will cost 1150 anyway + time.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 15.03.2011, 17:22
seyon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Olten
Posts: 471
Groaned at 15 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 128 Times in 74 Posts
seyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeable
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
I'd say fight if you wish but not with a lawyer as that will cost 1150 anyway + time.
The lawyer is my friend and he is not charging me.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 15.03.2011, 18:00
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
View Post
The lawyer is my friend and he is not charging me.

Good luck, but at the end of ther day you'll comprimise on the advise of the lawyer, that's how it works here.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 15.03.2011, 18:46
seyon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Olten
Posts: 471
Groaned at 15 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 128 Times in 74 Posts
seyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeableseyon is considered knowledgeable
Re: When will I get my Deposit back?

Quote:
Good luck, but at the end of ther day you'll comprimise on the advise of the lawyer, that's how it works here.
I do not understand that...
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Getting our deposit back, help!! smilerbaker Housing in general 18 13.02.2012 01:37
Housing Deposit: Getting it Back (what do when when landlord is cheap and dishonest) expat_in_zug Housing in general 5 08.12.2010 22:37
Nursery gone BUST!! Can we get our deposit back? goombie Daily life 3 11.07.2010 12:39
Deposit for flat rental [problems getting it back] hoover Housing in general 41 10.05.2010 19:39
how long to get deposit back sweeshymeeshy Housing in general 22 06.03.2010 12:33


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0