Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 24.08.2006, 13:31
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 969
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
Ha Haaaaa! that's so funny! Welcome to Switzerland! Enjoy the Aura of Tension! Don't be Happy - Just Worry!

The guy in my building makes a point of collecting the fluff from the dryer and parcelling it up into small, sealable plastic bags, like you would a certain herb, and markedly leaving it on your laundry pile. Even when you havn't finished your laundry. What The...??? I think these people prowl around, waiting to catch you out. It's hard not to become confrontational. I wonder how the Dalai Lama deals with it here...
That's a good one - such bizarre behaviour. Obviously the 'message' is that you aren't cleaning up the washroom to his standards or something. So why doesn't he just come out and voice his grievances instead of resorting to bizarre point scoring? Here's an idea, once you've removed the fluff from the plastic bags to dispose of it, return the bag to him (knocking on his door if necessary) thanking him for his help in collecting the fluff but pointing out that you can't be exepcted to dispose of his bags. If he won't answer the door, post it to him 'Eingeschreiben'.


There seem to be loads of people about with unreasonable expectations of how things should be who, as you say, just wait around to try to catch people out who aren't conforming with the aforementioned ideas of behaviour. And another typical pattern is the passive-aggressive way of voicing those 'concerns'. If they're so pissed off about trivial things then they should at least get their greivances out in the open.

Anyway, I just hope I don't get stung by a tw*t from the management company in such a way. Having read Lou's post about the 'Landlord from Hell' I've really had the wind put up me.


Gav
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 24.08.2006, 13:32
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,814
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
I'm fascinated reading about these people.

How sad must their own life be?

Unless they're just picking on the foreigners...
no, they will have a pop at each other.

The difference is: Foreigners do it and get caught; their Swiss counterpart will never get caught

Try also the forbidden fruit of:
washing your car on the street
washing your car on the street on a Sunday
mowing your lawn on a Sunday
make a noise post-10pm

etc etc etc

The rules started mostly to keep living standard in multi-family homes decent but they're being taken to a new level...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 24.08.2006, 14:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Or possibly try telling the farmer that he cannot bring in his crops on the only day for the past two weeks it did not rain which happened to be a Sunday or that he should not work over the 11am till 2pm "quiet" period. Happened in Neerach out in the sticks really farming land and amazingly cheap for tax. The guy came from the city to take advantage of the tax and complained officially to the Gemeinde who officially told him that if he did not like it go back to Zürich - made my day.

As for the Damage deposit it is just that. If there is damage that is outside of normal wear and tear then it is the responsibility of the tenant to put it right. It is very important to make sure that anything and everything is covered and written down in your handover protocol when you move in so that moving out is easier.

Cleaning is in comparison relatively painless. You can do it yourself or pay to have someone else do it.

Be aware that to have the landlord do it is often very expensive and legally they CANNOT insist that you do not do it yourself - it only needs to be done, whatever it is, to a professional standard. We had a company try and impose that on us and I told them they could use whoever they wanted but I would not be paying or I would arrange to have it put right.
Some of the larger companies insist on finding something wrong so if you are in a large block of flats with a management company it is very sensible to deliberately leave a few dirty spots so they can find those and think they have done their job.

Fill the holes with polyfila that sets white and not the cheaper stuff. If you do it with toothpaste then you run the risk of it being found and poked through... For smaller holes the best stuff is tippex.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 24.08.2006, 15:09
nymong's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bern
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
nymong has made some interesting contributions
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

My husband and I recently moved out. Well, we did the cleaning ourselves though really tough but it helped to be ripped off by those cleaning companies .

We have had some bad experience with the landlord who is anti-German..don't know why (especially when he is a retired Swiss army) and my husband is half german

So, we signed up with the rental association and made an appointment with a represenative from the association to help with the handover. The rental association will give you a list of contacts (usually they are either architects or legal assistant) whom you can make appointement with. So, we had a lady architect that popped by and she was quite helpful.

All in we paid less than 400chf including registration. It was worth it because the landlord was pretty aggressive (verbally) and we needed to feel "safe" and not being ripped off in the end. The landlord did not expect us to bring along a professional so that helped to shut him up. Of course, we also have been taking good care of the place.

In the end, we got all of our deposit.

Well, good luck with your moving out.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 24.08.2006, 16:17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ZH
Posts: 50
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
whyamihere has no particular reputation at present
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Gav

It`s also useful to know that every item in your rented house has an official lifespan. For example, carpets last 10 so if your carpets (if you have them) are over 10 years old they cannot make you pay for any damage on them. Wooden floors last a different amount of time depending on quality. Were all your walls newly painted when you moved in? Again if they`ve not been painted in the last 10 years you`re not liable (less for bathrooms and kitchens). We employed a relocation specialist when we moved which is why I know all this info. It was definitely worth the money for us as our landlord charged us nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 24.08.2006, 16:31
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 969
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
Gav

It`s also useful to know that every item in your rented house has an official lifespan. For example, carpets last 10 so if your carpets (if you have them) are over 10 years old they cannot make you pay for any damage on them. Wooden floors last a different amount of time depending on quality. Were all your walls newly painted when you moved in? Again if they`ve not been painted in the last 10 years you`re not liable (less for bathrooms and kitchens). We employed a relocation specialist when we moved which is why I know all this info. It was definitely worth the money for us as our landlord charged us nothing.
Is that expensive? Might be worth considering if it's only a couple of hundred francs.

Gav
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 24.08.2006, 16:36
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,814
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

www.mieterverband.ch - MietrechtOnline - Fragen & Antworten - Stichwort - "Lebensdauertabelle" might help you too

also on Homegate
http://www.homegate.ch/homegate/arti...ault&a=default

Examples from the second link:
Normale "Lebensdauer" verschiedener Einrichtungen in Jahren:

Bodenbeläge:
Kunststoff (Novilon, PVC etc.) 10-20
Linoleum, Inlaid etc. 25
Parkett versiegelt 40
Versiegelung des Parketts 10
Kunststein, Keramik 24-40
Spannteppich, Nadelfilz 5-10

It covers many apartment fittings and is all in German (or French, Italian, I'm sure)

edit for keywords: rent lifecycle depreciation replacement when moving out

Last edited by Lob; 28.08.2006 at 07:59.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 25.08.2006, 10:15
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ZURICH
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Pedigreeman has no particular reputation at present
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

I don't know if this makes any difference after 7 years in one place because I'd assume reasonable wear and tear would be OK. You may want to check your check-in documents.

When we first came here the check-in on the flat had three columns. I can't remember the first but column 2 was "seen as-is" and the third was "as new". The flat was actually 9 years old already but everything was ticked in the third column. If it had been 10 years old it I think it might have been different.

So when we moved after 4 years we were a bit worried. But we had no problems because we'd paid for professional cleaning etc and we'd looked after the place. On our current flat the next check-in has everything "seen as-is" so we're a lot more relaxed.

As I say, I don't know, but it may have an impact on expectations and the attitude of the landlord when you leave.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 26.08.2006, 20:05
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,745
Groaned at 542 Times in 416 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
If someone really wants to act like a pr*ck and be ludicrously anal about stuff like 'damage' and 'unclean' apartments, are you going to drag it through all the processes and take it to court, costing you possibly thousands in the process and of course blighting your life in the meantime?
Sadly it appears that there are plenty of people here who are determined to get their way and if you happen to butt heads with them they are more than willing to make things as hard for you as possible. I would suspect that they get some sort of perverse pleasure and feeling of control out of it.

It's widely known that landlords often use this opportunity for squeezing money for their renovation projects. Foreigners often fall victim to this. Perhaps they expect people to hang their heads in shame at the slightest accusation of damage. Here is some points to keep in mind in regards to damage deposits.

-If what is claimed as damage is normal wear and tear from daily living, your landlord cannot claim it. Carpets, countertops, kitchens and just about everything have a certain life expectancy before they need replacement. You should not be held accountable for this.
-If you did cause damage and you had insurance, your insurance should cover any real damages you cause.
-If the landlord claims damage, call your insurance company and tell them. Setup a communication channel between the insurance company and the landlord, then step back. The agent will probably tell the landlord that the gig is up and they will not be getting anything.
- If you still get a bill and feel the damage is really not your fault, simply letting the landlord know that you would fight this all the way to the highest court of the land is often enough for them to back down. If you take this route, remember, don't flinch and don't blink an eye. I've found that people here can't rally handle confrontations. You may have to go a little bit over the top, even with a little bit dramatics. Study how New Yorkers do it, even add a little bit of foaming at the mouth. But you really should only do this if you are truly being ripped off. You may be saving a lot of people from a lot of trouble in the future. If it works, you may have real acting talents and should consider looking for a local theater group. Don't forget to come back to your normal self after you are finished and have a good laugh.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 27.08.2006, 03:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
- If you still get a bill and feel the damage is really not your fault, simply letting the landlord know that you would fight this all the way to the highest court of the land is often enough for them to back down.
While I agree with you I think it is only fair to let people know that this is a two edged sword with no voluntary way out - a bit like high stakes poker. You might also find that if you take the terminus route your insurance will not pay - so read the small print and act with a degree of caution while strutting your stuff...
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 27.08.2006, 15:16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ZH
Posts: 50
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
whyamihere has no particular reputation at present
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
Is that expensive? Might be worth considering if it's only a couple of hundred francs.

Gav
I think we paid about 600 francs but that also included the handover of our new place. My new landlord doesn`t speak English so I really needed a German speaker and I couldn`t have managed without her. I can`t, as much as a try, be fussy so she did all that for me, pointing out every single mark and insisting it was written down along with the unweeded garden etc.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06.09.2006, 23:26
muze7's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Uk now after Neuchatel
Posts: 1,217
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 147 Times in 93 Posts
muze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Can anyone here recommend a good Haftplichtversicherung (personal liability insurance) for the purpose mentioned in this thread, i.e., insurance for damage a renter might cause? I still need one and have no idea where to start .

Edit: I went to Comparis as suggested and they have a really good search engine for private liability with or without household insurance added to it. Thanks everyone!

Last edited by muze7; 08.08.2007 at 16:11. Reason: adding english translate to untranslated German word
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07.09.2006, 12:07
fundoovish's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
fundoovish has no particular reputation at present
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Quote:
Can anyone here recommend a good privathaftplicht versicherung for the purpose mentioned in this thread, i.e., insurance for damage a renter might cause?

I still need one and have no idea where to start
I have just started the process .... Go to comparies.ch and get different quotes from insurance agencies .... I settled for Winterthur .... If you need contact details the just PM me
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08.08.2007, 16:09
muze7's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Uk now after Neuchatel
Posts: 1,217
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 147 Times in 93 Posts
muze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Mark said:
Quote:
Gav, generally the maximum you are liable for normal repairs is 1% of your yearly rent.
Mark, where did you get this info? Our landlord wants to charge 250 chf for each repair, each time, and they are really pushing this according to previous tenants. It is a clause in the contract we need to sign, and if I know it goes against normal Swiss contracts, or Swiss law, that would be helpful.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08.08.2007, 16:12
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,814
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

consider also checking with your insurance agent who might be knowledgeable in this area
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08.08.2007, 16:38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: geneve
Posts: 92
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
neerajana has no particular reputation at present
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

A quick question as a newbie. All these talks are scarimg me. We took our apartment in a as it is condition, it is totally unfurnished. The walls were not painted and a couple of nails were still in the walls as well as the curtain rails had not been removed. I thought that it would make life easier at handing over time as they did not give it new condition as it is.

Do u think we could still have a problem with the pre-existing stains etc. and normal wear and tear during our stay. Also as it is a company owned apt. I thought it would be better but now after reading the views looks like company owned houses may infact be a bigger pain than private owned ones. I guess we should go over the contract details with a fine tooth and comb once again. It is our first apt. in Switzerland any advise is welcome
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08.08.2007, 16:41
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,814
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

neerajana - what does it say on the handover protocol? That's the key.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08.08.2007, 17:03
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: geneve
Posts: 92
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
neerajana has no particular reputation at present
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

Hmm. As it is all in French. I can only figure it out partly. Guess I will get somebody to look at it with me thoroughly and then get back. thks.
Quote:
View Post
neerajana - what does it say on the handover protocol? That's the key.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08.08.2007, 18:39
muze7's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Uk now after Neuchatel
Posts: 1,217
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 147 Times in 93 Posts
muze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

The condition report should have something like columns with the option of the state it is in such as: good, fair etc. If it says the state of some things is good, while it is not, then I would be worried, otherwise it might turn out to be ok.

In any case, I also got worried like you about things like this, and decided to become a member of the Mieterverband (association that helps renters) http://www.mieterverband.ch/and to get a private liability insurance (Haftplichtversicherung; www.comparis.ch and switch to English), as this provides some coverage of damages when you move out.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank muze7 for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 13.08.2007, 23:12
Javo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 190
Groaned at 71 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 15 Posts
Javo has annoyed a few people around hereJavo has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Damage deposits on moving out

DOes anyone know how long the manger has to turnover the damage deposit?

From experiance, 1) get everything in writing. 2) take lots of pictures, even a film (that the sink and shower work) before and after moving out. 3) super clean the place yourself. and brag that you paid professional cleaners. 4) mention that you have a lawyer freind or family member. basically deter landlords from cheating you.

sorry but i think the swiss legal system doesnt work in todays fast passed society. it may have worked for small towns but not anymore. it seems landlords will try anything to cheat tenats because they can and do win. as the tenant association pointed out, many landlords have insurance that will pay for their legal represetation. so they are not out anything by pursueing tenants. plus with the fact that many people and insurance companies just pay, only makes the problem worse.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0