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Old 08.05.2011, 15:09
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Gerance refused proposed tenant

Hi,

Need a bit of advice... on may 2nd (first was sunday) I communicated la gerance that wanted to leave the appartment asap (June 1st?) and introduced them a family that was interested in taking over the leave "as seen". Both working with one little one. Even interested in taking over from mid May!
I received a phone call a few days later (not written confirmation) that they can not accept that family and that I need to keep searching.
The family seemed muslim to me, very nice.

Technically speaking... am I off the hook by presenting only one candidate? how do I know this candidate should have been accepted or not? I keep having visits as it is a very nice appartment on La Cote but I would like how to best act in the introduction of my second tenant.

Thank you for your advice.
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Old 08.05.2011, 15:15
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

They can refuse your proposed new tenant if they do not have proof of solvancy, eg that they are able to keep up payments.
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Old 08.05.2011, 15:26
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

thank you, Odile, what does it mean? Should I ask potential tenants for this solvency proof? where do they get it from? how do I know this was what it happened and not that they were just rejected for their religion? I feel like I present candidates and I have no control, visibility of criteria followed... how can I know if they are solvent?

Can the gerance refuse without limit?
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Old 08.05.2011, 15:28
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

I am absolutely no expert- so hope somebody will come up with clearer info. Like you, I sincerely hope they were not refused for religious (racist) reasons. Sadly Switzerland is generally much less tolerant of differences than, say, the UK.

Quand la régie doit-elle accepter le nouveau locataire proposé?
Le locataire proposé doit être solvable, tolérable et prêt à reprendre le bail aux mêmes conditions.

La solvabilité est en principe donnée lorsque le loyer (brut) n'excède pas un tiers du salaire (net) mensuel et que le candidat ne fait pas l’objet de poursuites en cours en vertu de l'extrait de l'office des poursuites.

Le locataire potentiel est considéré comme tolérable s'il présente un profil adéquat: un batteur professionnel ne convient pas à une résidence pour troisième âge et un appartement d'une pièce n’est pas fait pour une famille de quatre personnes. Toutefois la religion, l’appartenance ethnique et la nationalité ne peuvent pas être invoquées comme motif de refus.

Le nouveau locataire ne peut en outre pas formuler de conditions supplémentaires; il doit reprendre le contrat aux conditions existantes à ce moment-là, telles que définies entre le locataire et le bailleur.


Basically this says that the proposed tenant has to be financially solvent, and has to 'fit in'. For instance a drummer may not be suitable for a residence for old people. However religion or ethnicity cannot be acceptable as a motive for refusal. The rent must not exceed a third of new tenants salary.
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Old 08.05.2011, 15:44
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

Your local Renters' association ("Mieterverband" in German) will almost certainly have the answers to these questions on its website.

If you can read German, the most relevant pages are here:

http://www.mieterverband.ch/fragen/frage.php?id=177
http://www.mieterverband.ch/fragen/frage.php?id=170
http://www.mieterverband.ch/fragen/frage.php?id=175

(if you hunt around on http://www.mieterverband.ch/fragen/themen.php you'll find more useful advice).
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Old 08.05.2011, 17:42
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

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thank you, Odile, what does it mean? Should I ask potential tenants for this solvency proof? where do they get it from? how do I know this was what it happened and not that they were just rejected for their religion? I feel like I present candidates and I have no control, visibility of criteria followed... how can I know if they are solvent?

Can the gerance refuse without limit?
The regie can reject them for a few reasons. One is if they they don't make enough money to rent the place. The rent must be less than 1/3 of their total income. Or two if the apartment is not big enough for them. Too many people in too small a place. You need to ask the regie why they rejected them. If it is something other than those two reasons (maybe one more that I don't know) then they need to let you out of your rental agreement.

As was mentioned above, go speak to the tenants' association. In SR, it's called ASLOCA. http://www.asloca.ch/
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Old 08.05.2011, 17:57
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

Thank you. I will ask la gerance to answer to me in writing the reason for rejecting the proposed tenant.

Also, I will check with Asloca, maybe good idea to associate...

Thanks.
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Old 10.05.2011, 23:17
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

News... la gerance replied by mail this time that reason for refusal was that they failed on the pursuites ... which I guess it means they have debts.

Lucky me!

In the meantime, la gerance is coming tomorrow (only 24 hours notice!!) to check the house.

I feel they might want to assess if they can update the house and increase significantly the rent as it is quite under priced for this area.

If so... do you think they would let me off the hook to do the update of the house even if I do not find alternative tenant?

Give me hope! :-)
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Old 10.05.2011, 23:42
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

If you are in the situation that you have to find a follow-on tenant then the régie cannot increase the rent. If they wish to increase the rent then they have to let you off the hook. You are only obliged to find someone who will take on the apartment on exactly the same terms as you have.



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News... la gerance replied by mail this time that reason for refusal was that they failed on the pursuites ... which I guess it means they have debts.

Lucky me!

In the meantime, la gerance is coming tomorrow (only 24 hours notice!!) to check the house.

I feel they might want to assess if they can update the house and increase significantly the rent as it is quite under priced for this area.

If so... do you think they would let me off the hook to do the update of the house even if I do not find alternative tenant?

Give me hope! :-)
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Old 11.05.2011, 00:39
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

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News... la gerance replied by mail this time that reason for refusal was that they failed on the pursuites ... which I guess it means they have debts.

Lucky me!

In the meantime, la gerance is coming tomorrow (only 24 hours notice!!) to check the house.

I feel they might want to assess if they can update the house and increase significantly the rent as it is quite under priced for this area.

If so... do you think they would let me off the hook to do the update of the house even if I do not find alternative tenant?

Give me hope! :-)
I forgot about the poursuites. As Snoppy says, you could be in luck. The new tenant not so much though.

Hope you get it resolved anyway. Good luck.
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Old 11.05.2011, 16:17
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

Good to hear that's resolved.

I had the opposite experience. When I moved to Zurich last year my company paid for a relocation agent to help me. After we applied for the first flat we didn't hear back from the letting company for a week. My relocation agent called them and asked what's happening. At first they denied having received the application. So we faxed another copy of the application as well as sending it by registered post. Another week went by and we still didn't hear anything.

The tenant in the flat who was aware I wanted to take the flat and wanted to move out herself called us and asked what was happening? So we told her that we'd applied and hadn't heard back.

The tenant then called the letting agent to ask what's going on, and she was told "He's got a Muslim name and we don't want these foreigners in the flat."

A couple of days later the tenant called us again and told us that the letting company had denied an application from another family because "they've got an Italian name. We don't want those foreigners in our flat."

In any case, I had put in an application for another flat in the same area which was successful and moved in there.
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Old 11.05.2011, 20:13
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

Next chapter... gerance was over and told me that for the time being I should be continuing with visits... however, it seems she will study painting all kitchen cabinets, maybe resanding the floors... and in that case she mentioned to me that legally I could go on June 1st!

Fingers crossed!

I thought she was extremely nice (I fear it would not be so in the etat de lieux in 3 weeks that I would be leaving...).

Regarding that, I cleaned the walls with bleach and many of the marks came out of it, but others I just brushed new paint over. Of course you can see where this has been done. But it looks ok to me. If it shows difference of course it is the wear of the white compared to todays paint or can she claim that I should pay the whole repaint of the appartment? It is at least 2 years old.

She mentioned that I should have done it with the roll and not with the brush. Is that written somewhere???

Arrrg... I am starting to regret moving...
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Old 11.05.2011, 20:37
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

When you paint with a brush, it is very difficult to make a plain surface flat: the movements are visible, the paint tends to get thicker. You might think it looks ok to you, but to some people it might not be, which might decrease the chances of getting a tennant.

When I moved into my flat, the company said walls were "ok, though used". When I checked the flat the following day with natural light, it was a filthy mess with 2 different tones of white and tons of scratches. I took pictures and offered to do the painting myself if the housing office paid the paint. They immediately said yes, sparing over 600 CHF. I have read people in this forum receiving 950 CHF bills for repainting the flat after moving out. For your wallet sake, make sure the walls are really ok, or just "student presentable".
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Old 11.05.2011, 22:04
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

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When you paint with a brush, it is very difficult to make a plain surface flat: the movements are visible, the paint tends to get thicker. You might think it looks ok to you, but to some people it might not be, which might decrease the chances of getting a tennant.

When I moved into my flat, the company said walls were "ok, though used". When I checked the flat the following day with natural light, it was a filthy mess with 2 different tones of white and tons of scratches. I took pictures and offered to do the painting myself if the housing office paid the paint. They immediately said yes, sparing over 600 CHF. I have read people in this forum receiving 950 CHF bills for repainting the flat after moving out. For your wallet sake, make sure the walls are really ok, or just "student presentable".
950 to paint an apartment it not that much money. but usually normal wear and tear is OK.
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Old 12.05.2011, 11:11
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

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Next chapter... gerance was over and told me that for the time being I should be continuing with visits... however, it seems she will study painting all kitchen cabinets, maybe resanding the floors... and in that case she mentioned to me that legally I could go on June 1st!

Fingers crossed!

I thought she was extremely nice (I fear it would not be so in the etat de lieux in 3 weeks that I would be leaving...).

Regarding that, I cleaned the walls with bleach and many of the marks came out of it, but others I just brushed new paint over. Of course you can see where this has been done. But it looks ok to me. If it shows difference of course it is the wear of the white compared to todays paint or can she claim that I should pay the whole repaint of the appartment? It is at least 2 years old.

She mentioned that I should have done it with the roll and not with the brush. Is that written somewhere???

Arrrg... I am starting to regret moving...
By law, walls need to be repainted every 10 years and this is usually done in a straight-line depreciation way (so the wall should be 10% used each year you live there assuming it was newly painted when you moved in). This means that the most your landlord can claim from you is 80% of the total cost of repainting. This also means that if the wear and tear of your paint isn't more than 20%, you shuold be fine. You've lived there for 2 years, normal wear and tear are expected. Landlord can't expect the wall to be like new.
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Old 12.05.2011, 21:09
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

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By law, walls need to be repainted every 10 years
It's NOT the law, but it is a generally accepted guideline.......
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Old 20.05.2011, 23:24
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

Average 5-6 visits per week but still no application on la gerance...

I think it is due to the state of floors (urgent need of sanding) and aged look of kitchen...

Gerance has not come back to me deciding whether they will do the works and get me off the hook. I think they are trying to leave it to last minute decision...

If I can proof that I have shown the appartment to more than 20 people and that the price is below the market but the issue is the state of it... can I:

a) go to Asloca to get help to come out of the bail?
b) negotiate with la gerance to pay let´s say one month of rent penalty (towards cost of renewal) so while they do the works they can still look for new tenants?

Thank you for your advise (...again)
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Old 26.05.2011, 22:20
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

Thanks for all the information on finding a replacement tenant. Very helpful as we are in the same situation in having to find a new tenant. However we didn't know about the point regarding no changes to the terms of the lease. The landlord is increasing the rent but advertising the place so that we don't.
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Old 27.05.2011, 18:50
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

Gerance has decided to do new the whole parquet and paint, including kitchen improvements. But ... they are not letting me off the hook because they will mantain same rent :-((

This means that I should be paying less rent in the meantime because the appartement is obviously not in good condition?

I sent a proposal tola gerance to pay part of the costs of the refurbishment as a way out of the bail. Still no response... if not next June 1st I will have to pay for second month, 2 appartments... :-((
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Old 27.05.2011, 19:35
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Re: Gerance refused proposed tenant

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Gerance has decided to do new the whole parquet and paint, including kitchen improvements. But ... they are not letting me off the hook because they will mantain same rent :-((

This means that I should be paying less rent in the meantime because the appartement is obviously not in good condition?
Well maybe not, but they shouldn't do the renovations while you are still paying rent.

And ask then how this will work exactly. When would a follow-on tenant be able to move in if they are doing work?
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