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Old 27.08.2006, 14:05
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Electric Company Complaints

We are having severe issues with our electric company (IWB in Basel Stadt), who keeps passing the buck to our landlord (a large property management company) - who then tells us to go back to IWB.

We're going in circles and people keep changing their stories. But the facts are:
  • Our meter is recording electric usage seven times greater than the amount used by identical apartments in our building. They say our usage is mostly during the day - when we are not home, there are no lights, tv or computer monitors turned on. Maybe a ceiling fan running and a couple of clock radios along with the low-wattage computer boxes...
  • We have used their plug in monitor for 24 hours, to see if there was something wonky. We used it on the outlet which feeds our computers (we were told by the rep at IWB this was the best one to use...) and he said the usage was just marginally higher than normal usage for that period - and we would need to be having 10 fridges running to have the usage we're being billed for. He later changed his story , after we wrote a letter to IWB and said we were being charged correctly.
IWB has said they'd have an electrician look at the meter, etc. - but only if we paid for it.

We have a friend who is an electrician, and he's found some problems (crossed wires in the fuse box, output from the outlets too high, etc.). He obviously can't check out the meter wiring.

The point of this tome: Does anyone know who the electric companies report to? Who is their governing body? Who we can take this to at a higher level for our complaint? Even going to the inexpensive legal clinic resulted in a bored lawyer saying "you must be using too much electricity" and the mieterschutz has been also quite weak in assistance and advice. Anyone else ever have this problem?
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Old 27.08.2006, 15:44
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

Quote:
We are having severe issues with our electric company (IWB in Basel Stadt), who keeps passing the buck to our landlord (a large property management company) - who then tells us to go back to IWB.

We're going in circles and people keep changing their stories. But the facts are:
  • Our meter is recording electric usage seven times greater than the amount used by identical apartments in our building. They say our usage is mostly during the day - when we are not home, there are no lights, tv or computer monitors turned on. Maybe a ceiling fan running and a couple of clock radios along with the low-wattage computer boxes...
  • We have used their plug in monitor for 24 hours, to see if there was something wonky. We used it on the outlet which feeds our computers (we were told by the rep at IWB this was the best one to use...) and he said the usage was just marginally higher than normal usage for that period - and we would need to be having 10 fridges running to have the usage we're being billed for. He later changed his story , after we wrote a letter to IWB and said we were being charged correctly.
IWB has said they'd have an electrician look at the meter, etc. - but only if we paid for it.

We have a friend who is an electrician, and he's found some problems (crossed wires in the fuse box, output from the outlets too high, etc.). He obviously can't check out the meter wiring.

The point of this tome: Does anyone know who the electric companies report to? Who is their governing body? Who we can take this to at a higher level for our complaint? Even going to the inexpensive legal clinic resulted in a bored lawyer saying "you must be using too much electricity" and the mieterschutz has been also quite weak in assistance and advice. Anyone else ever have this problem?
I'd advise you to just pay to have the meter checked out. You shouldn't have to do so of course but the alternative is to get involved in a time consuming 'battle' with the landlord and electric co.

Maybe if it turns out that the meter is faulty you can charge testing and repair costs to the landlord?


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Old 27.08.2006, 15:59
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

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I'd advise you to just pay to have the meter checked out. You shouldn't have to do so of course but the alternative is to get involved in a time consuming 'battle' with the landlord and electric co.

Maybe if it turns out that the meter is faulty you can charge testing and repair costs to the landlord?
Unfortunately, we don't have the cash to be able to pay for a IWB electrician. It could run up to 1k or more just to pull things apart and look at it, or so we have been told.

And if they find out there's nothing wrong with the meter? Then we're out not only the high rates for electricity but also the electrician's fees. Even if the management company later found out the fault was within the building or the wiring in our apartment - do you think they'd reimburse us? Not without a fight. So I guess the fight could be now, up front, or later - if the meter turns out to be OK.

Not to mention that I cannot bring myself to pay for something they should be doing. They keep telling us that we are using that much electricity - despite their test and our inventory of what we've got running, and our electrican friend's reassurance that we can't be using that much.
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Old 27.08.2006, 16:40
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

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Unfortunately, we don't have the cash to be able to pay for a IWB electrician. It could run up to 1k or more just to pull things apart and look at it, or so we have been told.

And if they find out there's nothing wrong with the meter? Then we're out not only the high rates for electricity but also the electrician's fees. Even if the management company later found out the fault was within the building or the wiring in our apartment - do you think they'd reimburse us? Not without a fight. So I guess the fight could be now, up front, or later - if the meter turns out to be OK.

Not to mention that I cannot bring myself to pay for something they should be doing. They keep telling us that we are using that much electricity - despite their test and our inventory of what we've got running, and our electrican friend's reassurance that we can't be using that much.
1k CHF just to run some tests on your supply? Good grief, this is the sort of thing that they should be doing for free. If there's a wiring fault affecting the consumption readings, it could well also be physically dangerous to you. eg. Fire, electrocution.

Maybe you should get in touch with the renters association? Could be money well spent to join up.


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Old 27.08.2006, 16:58
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

Ok, here's a suggestion that you can do right now. Start by turning off and unplugging everything you can, switch off all lights, disconnect the fridge - everything you can think of. Check the meter - is it moving? If so then something is drawing current that you don't know about.

Somewhere in your place you'll find a box of fuses or circuit breakers. Get one person to watch the electricity meter and another to switch off and on these circuit breakers one by one. Now look at the meter - is it still moving? If it's moving and you've got everything disconnected then something else is using the power. If you see a lot of movement on one circuit and not much on the others then you've isolated the circuit that is causing the problem - which one is it? Check it in more detail and it might lead you to the problem.

Haven't the "experts" given you any tips like that yet?
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Old 27.08.2006, 18:34
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

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1k CHF just to run some tests on your supply? Good grief, this is the sort of thing that they should be doing for free. If there's a wiring fault affecting the consumption readings, it could well also be physically dangerous to you. eg. Fire, electrocution.

Maybe you should get in touch with the renters association? Could be money well spent to join up.
Yeah, they apparently will take it apart to check the wiring. I think it should be all a part of the service, but they disagree.

We have spoken with the renters association (mieterschutz), but they've just told us to contact the electric company and our landlord.
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Old 27.08.2006, 18:36
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

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Ok, here's a suggestion that you can do right now. Start by turning off and unplugging everything you can, switch off all lights, disconnect the fridge - everything you can think of. Check the meter - is it moving? If so then something is drawing current that you don't know about.

Somewhere in your place you'll find a box of fuses or circuit breakers. Get one person to watch the electricity meter and another to switch off and on these circuit breakers one by one. Now look at the meter - is it still moving? If it's moving and you've got everything disconnected then something else is using the power. If you see a lot of movement on one circuit and not much on the others then you've isolated the circuit that is causing the problem - which one is it? Check it in more detail and it might lead you to the problem.

Haven't the "experts" given you any tips like that yet?
Yes, someone at the electric company suggested we do that. It didn't move when everything was disconnected. I don't think we tried it one by one, though...

We've got a new style meter that blinks some lights instead of spins, FWIW.
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Old 27.08.2006, 18:45
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

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Yes, someone at the electric company suggested we do that. It didn't move when everything was disconnected. I don't think we tried it one by one, though...

We've got a new style meter that blinks some lights instead of spins, FWIW.
When you say it didn't move when everything was disconnected - then all you have to do is connect and disconnect every item in your house one by one and note the rate at which it moves. You know how much you pay per KW, so you should be able to see the rate at which it moves and calculate what the cost would be. When you connect each item one at a time you should be able to isolate which item is burning all the electricity.

I see that you have three possibilties:

1. Electricity theft - someone has connected to your supply. Though turning it off and seeing no activity on the meter means nothing is seems suspicious. Repeat the test at different times of the day, just to be sure.
2. Faulty meter - perhaps it is reading faster than it should. This is easy to test. Turn everything off so it stops. Then turn on just one thing where you know the rate of consumption. For example, run a 100W light - you should see that the meter registers 0.1KW for an hour of use. If it does, then the meter is correct.
3. You have an appliance somewhere that is drawing way more than it should.

Another thing you could try is keep a little log book - every hour take a note of the meter reading and look for a pattern of use during the day - are you seeing a spike during particular hours?

Being methodical and smart about it (like keeping a detailed log) is likely to help you in any future dispute.
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Old 27.08.2006, 19:02
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

Mark - That is some fantastic advice, thank you. We'll be running those tests and starting a log book tonight (along with an inventory of what is running at the time the entry is in the book...hopefully it will all help!)
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Old 27.08.2006, 19:09
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

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Mark - That is some fantastic advice, thank you. We'll be running those tests and starting a log book tonight (along with an inventory of what is running at the time the entry is in the book...hopefully it will all help!)
Excellent - keep us posted - if it happens to you it could happen to others. Just as a side note - an unusually high electricity bill is usually a clue to police that certain plants are being cultivated on the premises - but in your case nobody seems to have batted an eyelid...
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Old 27.08.2006, 19:12
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

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Excellent - keep us posted - if it happens to you it could happen to others. Just as a side note - an unusually high electricity bill is usually a clue to police that certain plants are being cultivated on the premises - but in your case nobody seems to have batted an eyelid...
Actually, I laughed when we first had the problem and told the husband to expect the cops at the door looking for growing lamps and what grows under them. We've been fighting this problem for about 2 years now, still no visit.

I almost kind of wish they would, because that might spur someone in some sort of position of power into action to fix this mess.
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Old 27.08.2006, 19:20
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

Perhaps now is the time to take out a subscription to k-tipp if you haven't already. They may be very interested in your story and how it turns out - but they'll only help subscribers (it costs almost nothing!)

With regards to your question as to who is the governing body, why not ask the company what their dispute resolution process is, and who the governing body is. Most developed countries have independant bodies who are charged with resolving disputes in certain industries. Usually this process is advertised to consumers as part of the normal communications from whatever company is involved. For example a bank should have a brochure somewhere that explains what happens if you have a disagreement with the bank, and how it will be handled. Whether this is also common place in Switzerland I don't know - but it wouldn't harm to ask! Simply enquiring about the dispute resolution process may spur some further action.
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Old 27.08.2006, 22:02
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

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Perhaps now is the time to take out a subscription to k-tipp if you haven't already. They may be very interested in your story and how it turns out - but they'll only help subscribers (it costs almost nothing!)
We've let our subscription lapse...thanks for the reminder to renew it. We had talked about contacting them, but haven't acted. Sometimes I need to light a fire under the husband's butt to do things

Quote:
With regards to your question as to who is the governing body, why not ask the company what their dispute resolution process is, and who the governing body is. Most developed countries have independant bodies who are charged with resolving disputes in certain industries. Usually this process is advertised to consumers as part of the normal communications from whatever company is involved. For example a bank should have a brochure somewhere that explains what happens if you have a disagreement with the bank, and how it will be handled. Whether this is also common place in Switzerland I don't know - but it wouldn't harm to ask! Simply enquiring about the dispute resolution process may spur some further action.
I think that might not be a bad idea. They are pretty nasty at IWB, though, so I'm not sure it will do the trick. Despite my husband writing letters and calling them to dispute these bills over the past months, they just ignored everything - giving us, at best, lip service over the phone. They then sent someone over here to collect the outstanding balance (husband insisted I not pay the bills since they were wrong, because by paying them we agree they are correct - said that's the Swiss way of thinking). Of course, we weren't home - we were at work. No advance notice, nothing. We came home to find no power - and after calling, they laughed at us (literally) and said "tough shit" - either be a good citizen and pay your bill on time or we will punish you without notice. And not turn your power back on until you have paid us 100% of the 1500 CHF outstanding balance. No advance notice of disconnect and no chance to get the power back on with even 1/2 paid.

I should add that we didn't just ignore the bills, we tried to talk to them and the building management company about the issue, wrote letters, etc. It wasn't just us ignoring the bills.

Obviously you can see I want to make some heads roll over this.

Last edited by evilshell; 27.08.2006 at 22:42.
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Old 28.08.2006, 02:10
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

Is moving an option in the near future? (I know you shouldn't have to, but in case it cannot be solved.. )
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Old 28.08.2006, 06:51
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

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Is moving an option in the near future? (I know you shouldn't have to, but in case it cannot be solved.. )
That was actually my preferred method to deal with it, but I can't talk the husband into it
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Old 28.08.2006, 10:30
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

I'm sure its not true in this case..... but my friend had an apartment for a year in UK and wondered why his bills were so high, until he discovered the landlord, that lived upstaired was tapped into his power supply post-meter.

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Old 28.08.2006, 10:38
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

Quote:
Just as a side note - an unusually high electricity bill is usually a clue to police that certain plants are being cultivated on the premises - but in your case nobody seems to have batted an eyelid...
This was my initial thought - it's not so uncommon. Have a snoop around your cellar and/or attic area. The smell alone will give it away. Are there any businesses next door which could be hooking up to your supply?

This is a tough story. Hope you resolve the issue with these swines. I had a similar problem with Billag and gave up protesting after 6 months: it was easier to admit 'guilt' and pay the bloody bill then pay for lawyers to take up the case.

Let us know what happens next: it would be great to unite against these Bullys!

Last edited by Uncle Max; 28.08.2006 at 17:03.
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Old 28.08.2006, 10:39
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

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That was actually my preferred method to deal with it, but I can't talk the husband into it
Given that this problem has been going on for some time, there's no sign of any resolution and it's costing you lots of money I would have thought that a move might be the best way. If you threatened to move you could always point out to the landlord that you'll be sure to be informing any future tenants that were sent around to look at the apartment what the situation was with the electricity ......


In Zuerich at least, I know that there is some sort of civil court for disuputes involving things like rent, maybe other things too like bills. Whilst the dispute is ongoing, you pay the rent to the 'court' and it will eventually rule who is in the right.

I don't think it costs anything to initiate but you might have to pay something if you lose. A colleague at work had a dispute with the landlord and followed this procedure.

Sorry I don't know any more about it but you should ask your husband to ask around with his Swiss contacts, someone is sure to know if such a system exists in Basel.


Gav
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Old 28.08.2006, 17:01
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

Being with IWB is a pain... You are with the government as IWB is 100% owned by Basel Stadt. Try sending a mail to: - eduard.schumacher@iwb.ch telling him you are taking your complaint to cash tv and you find it unbelievable that you can switch off a users electricity but are not able to respond to mails disputing the level of bill. By the way cash tv is a big threat for such companies as they are still relying on the relatively open electricity market for businesses... here is the link: http://www.cash.ch/index.php?Id=184&tk=79

Just for the record I was once in an apartment where the lift was connected to the flat. So in addition to Marks advice - if you have a lift try it and see if you are picking up the bill...
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Old 28.08.2006, 23:37
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Re: Electric Company Complaints

Quote:
Being with IWB is a pain... You are with the government as IWB is 100% owned by Basel Stadt. Try sending a mail to: - eduard.schumacher@iwb.ch telling him you are taking your complaint to cash tv and you find it unbelievable that you can switch off a users electricity but are not able to respond to mails disputing the level of bill. By the way cash tv is a big threat for such companies as they are still relying on the relatively open electricity market for businesses... here is the link: http://www.cash.ch/index.php?Id=184&tk=79

Just for the record I was once in an apartment where the lift was connected to the flat. So in addition to Marks advice - if you have a lift try it and see if you are picking up the bill...
Thank you for the information! I think we will keep track of things, see if anything changes and then contact these people if it doesn't.
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