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  #21  
Old 08.07.2011, 18:28
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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Just got some back dated power bill for 2009. Just more proof of how screwed up this country is in some ways. If you can't charge the proper rates at the proper time, how is it my responsibility to make up for that?
They don't know how cold it's going to be or the cost of the fuel in advance, so to get a final account seems reasonable.
If you own a flat in the UK or France , the same will occur for service charges.

Why would it be some one elses responsibility, they could charge a huge upfront estimate & then refund, I doubt you would be happy either.
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  #22  
Old 08.07.2011, 18:42
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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Just got some back dated power bill for 2009. Just more proof of how screwed up this country is in some ways. If you can't charge the proper rates at the proper time, how is it my responsibility to make up for that?
Hey, do I get a back dated credit for all of the times that I did not exceed the speed limit and followed the letter of the law precisely against the three times that made a mistake? I did the good thing over 99% of the time.
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  #23  
Old 08.07.2011, 18:48
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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I don't think this is true as we were hit for 900+ chf and were told by our HR person in CH to just pay it.
Is it 900 CHF for 1 year or 2-3 years ?
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  #24  
Old 08.07.2011, 18:49
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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Just got some back dated power bill for 2009. Just more proof of how screwed up this country is in some ways. If you can't charge the proper rates at the proper time, how is it my responsibility to make up for that?
It shouldnt happen for power but mostly for heating costs if that is what you meant. Unfortunate but they can charge up to 5 years back from the date of the bill they sent you.
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  #25  
Old 08.07.2011, 18:53
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

edit: found it:

The tenant must pay ancillary costs (Nebenkosten) (Article 275a and 275b, SCO), i.e. the
costs for heating, hot water and similar utilities, where both tenant and landlord have
agreed on such a payment. Alternatively, the landlord may agree to bear such costs himself
by not including such a clause in the agreement. In most cases, however, it is the tenant
who bears such costs.
In general, the tenant pays a monthly sum on account (Article 257c, SCO) to cover
ancillary costs. Each year or half year, the landlord must render a statement showing the
amount of actual costs, either reimbursing or claiming payment for the difference.
The parties may agree to a lump sum payment. The lump sum is calculated on the basis of
the average yearly costs for the last three years (Article 4(2) Swiss Ordinance on Tenancy
of Accommodation70). The tenant is not liable for a discrepancy between the lump sum and
the actual costs in his favour. However, he is entitled to repayment when the difference is
in the landlord’s favour, due to the mandatory nature of Article 257b(1) SCO, which
prohibits payments for ancillary costs in excess of the actual costs.71
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  #26  
Old 08.07.2011, 19:03
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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Hi there EF Members,

This seems to be my week to hit this site and its' forums and not for great reasons.

I have a question... Again...

This time we have recently received a letter from our Apartment Buidling Owners asking for Back Dated payments for the Costs to Cover the Fuel to Heat our Apartment Block. It goes back to 2009.

Have any of you ever heard of this? I would of thought that no one can Back-date unforeseen rises in the costs of Fuel for Heating... My logic makes me think that once you've paid for something the supplier cannot go back and add to it.

Yes of course - if in the future they forecast increases - this makes sense and is acceptable.

Again - I cannot read my contract - it's in German and work out for myself if it states that they can do this? Can someone shed some light or even help into reading the contract through? I'd apreciate some pointers here.

The sum back-dated is only CHF 900.00 - but that's a nice meal out - isn't it? for more than 2 people?????

Thanks once more...

Ben
I also do raw material analysis for my work...and somebody came to me as she had a very similar problem to deal with. She asked me to do an analysis of the cost of heating oil in Switzerland and basically, it wasn't justified as prices fell sharply in 2009 and slowly started to rise again in 2010 but never reached the level of 2008. Here is an informative website displaying the price of heating oil per liter in Zurich.

http://www.hev-schweiz.ch/vermieten-...elpreise-2008/

On the right side, you can change the rear and compute a mean price. If they didn't raise the price before 2008, then it doesn't make sense that they would charge you extra for 2009 and 2010. Print it out and present it to them...or involve the right authorities.

Last edited by lost_inbroad; 08.07.2011 at 19:33.
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  #27  
Old 08.07.2011, 19:25
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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They don't know how cold it's going to be or the cost of the fuel in advance, so to get a final account seems reasonable.
If you own a flat in the UK or France , the same will occur for service charges.

Why would it be some one elses responsibility, they could charge a huge upfront estimate & then refund, I doubt you would be happy either.
They could just bill it out on a monthly basis.
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  #28  
Old 08.07.2011, 20:09
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

The problem is when they bought the oil, not the daily prices after!
The mean price is irrelivent.

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I also do raw material analysis for my work...and somebody came to me as she had a very similar problem to deal with. She asked me to do an analysis of the cost of heating oil in Switzerland and basically, it wasn't justified as prices fell sharply in 2009 and slowly started to rise again in 2010 but never reached the level of 2008. Here is an informative website displaying the price of heating oil per liter in Zurich.

http://www.hev-schweiz.ch/vermieten-...elpreise-2008/

On the right side, you can change the rear and compute a mean price. If they didn't raise the price before 2008, then it doesn't make sense that they would charge you extra for 2009 and 2010. Print it out and present it to them...or involve the right authorities.
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  #29  
Old 08.07.2011, 20:12
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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They could just bill it out on a monthly basis.
Administration costs money, the contract which is agreed by both parties probably states a yearly accounts. The law provides upto 5 years to present the account, without adding any interest! It^s actually a good deal being billed 5 years late.
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  #30  
Old 08.07.2011, 20:21
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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The problem is when they bought the oil, not the daily prices after!
The mean price is irrelivent.
They were back charging since 09...that's what's relevant. 08 and previous years all showed higher prices, therefore it is illogical that the heating costed more during 09 and 10.
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  #31  
Old 08.07.2011, 20:54
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

The problem with certain theories is that all my heating is thermal radiant flooring so it has little to do with fuel oil costs. Any sane country would charge you what you used that month at the end of that month, not 'what do we think you'll spend on a monthly basis averaged over the year'. That would be like, oh, I don't know, sending you speeding tickets every three months based on what they think your average speeding violation would be and then sending you a refund if you don't speed.
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  #32  
Old 08.07.2011, 21:10
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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They were back charging since 09...that's what's relevant. 08 and previous years all showed higher prices, therefore it is illogical that the heating costed more during 09 and 10.
They have to produce fully itemized accounts. Your are also responsible for boiler service costs etc as well as oil used. Whilst it may be illogical I suspect they can justify it.
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  #33  
Old 08.07.2011, 21:43
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

I like the idea that Phoofus is under the illusion that Switzerland is a sane country.... how many years have you lived here?
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  #34  
Old 08.07.2011, 21:56
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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They have to produce fully itemized accounts. Your are also responsible for boiler service costs etc as well as oil used. Whilst it may be illogical I suspect they can justify it.
Well, yours is an assumption, while my posts are based on facts. If the priced dropped 30%-40% like it did, and hasn't reached previous levels as yet, then I do find a 900Chf back charge justifiable. In addition, my colleague brought her case to the rental agency and didn't have to pay the back fee anymore...as it turned out, the replaced the boiler and chose to relay the bill to the tenants.
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  #35  
Old 08.07.2011, 22:41
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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how many years have you lived here?
25, and you?

Tom
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  #36  
Old 09.07.2011, 00:02
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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Well, yours is an assumption, while my posts are based on facts. If the priced dropped 30%-40% like it did, and hasn't reached previous levels as yet, then I do find a 900Chf back charge justifiable. In addition, my colleague brought her case to the rental agency and didn't have to pay the back fee anymore...as it turned out, the replaced the boiler and chose to relay the bill to the tenants.
So why don't you do what your colleague did, and see the response?
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  #37  
Old 09.07.2011, 00:13
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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I like the idea that Phoofus is under the illusion that Switzerland is a sane country.... how many years have you lived here?
How long have you known English?

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Just more proof of how screwed up this country is in some ways.
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  #38  
Old 09.07.2011, 00:22
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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So why don't you do what your colleague did, and see the response?
Because if you were able to read, you'd know that I don't have any issues with my heating bill.
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  #39  
Old 09.07.2011, 01:00
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

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Is it 900 CHF for 1 year or 2-3 years ?
One year.
We only lived in Vaud for less than two years.
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  #40  
Old 09.07.2011, 01:26
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Re: Anyone? Back-dated Fuel Bills Charged ?

Have had one retroactive fuel bill since being here and was none too impressed with the explanation why. I couldn't see the logic behind it then and still can't.

I recall asking if a refund would be made if fuel prices subsequently went down and which was met with a feigned smile and a muffled response that I could not understand, even though we were speaking English!
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