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Old 19.07.2011, 16:04
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Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

Hello!

Was wondering if money was not a problem, where is the absolute best places to explore to live in Zug? Our absolute top of the budget is about $12,500 Swiss Francs per month to rent, hopefully it will be a lot cheaper, or if we buy not more than $4,500,000 Swiss Francs, likewise, hopefully cheaper.

We prefer a house with a view with a little larger yard for the 3 little boys to run and play or next to a park. Lake front with a view would be ultimate but perhaps out of our budget? Maybe on a mountain with a view and close by a nice town or in a nice town with a lot of useful resources (supermarket, restaurants, etc).

Looking at Zug because of the Lump Sum Tax or Forfeit Tax. I think they voted that out in Zurich and Basel. We also want to be not too far from the resources of the large city of Zurich.

We will be arriving this Friday and will explore Zug and Zurich through Monday before going to Italy for a side trip. Thank-you for your help.
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Old 19.07.2011, 16:17
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

I can't really help you with knowing too much about property in Zug, however you have a pretty good budget for purchasing lakeside property there I would think. Google the German word 'Immobilien' (this means property) and for example 'Zug' and you will find many links to real estate agents.
Have you looked into Luzern regarding the tax situation? With the new highway, it's only 40 mins drive directly from Zurich and is a gorgeous small city to bring up children in. There is a beautiful suburb called Meggen (in Luzern) you should look into, with low tax agreements. Zug is perhaps not the most exciting place to actually live in...
Would the school possibilities play any role in where you will choose to live? I happen to work at a schools in Zug and Luzern, so let me know if you need any info or helpful tips. Good luck!
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Old 19.07.2011, 17:35
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

JAPP, that is some great advice. I didn't want to have to limit myself to only living in Zug, but it seemed the more and more places were voting down the Lump Sum tax. Good to hear Luzern is an option and I have read on this forum from others highlighting it as a nice place to live. A little worried about Zug being boring as I have heard from others, but we will see when we visit for this first of many information gathering trips. We also like quiet small towns not far from other nice places, like where we live now in Tiburon in Marin County California. School is very important and not sure but I have heard of that school you are talking about, the International School of Zug and Luzern? Might be just what we need, but maybe we will integrate all of them or onlyt he younger ones, but that perhaps is for school forum here.

Mariezug: thank-you for your kind offer as well to show us around. That is very nice and warms me to know there are such nice people in Switzerland. You brought up a great point regarding walkability, we love that too if it is possible without sacrificing too much of other things (like a view and yard) we definitely prefer it!
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Old 19.07.2011, 17:39
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

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Hello!

Was wondering if money was not a problem, where is the absolute best places to explore to live in Zug? Our absolute top of the budget is about $12,500 Swiss Francs per month to rent, hopefully it will be a lot cheaper, or if we buy not more than $4,500,000 Swiss Francs, likewise, hopefully cheaper.

We prefer a house with a view with a little larger yard for the 3 little boys to run and play or next to a park. Lake front with a view would be ultimate but perhaps out of our budget? Maybe on a mountain with a view and close by a nice town or in a nice town with a lot of useful resources (supermarket, restaurants, etc).

Looking at Zug because of the Lump Sum Tax or Forfeit Tax. I think they voted that out in Zurich and Basel. We also want to be not too far from the resources of the large city of Zurich.

We will be arriving this Friday and will explore Zug and Zurich through Monday before going to Italy for a side trip. Thank-you for your help.
http://www.homegate.ch/rent/10348813...ault&l=default

Or This

http://www.homegate.ch/rent/apartmen...zg&ag=7000&be=
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Old 19.07.2011, 20:56
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

Zug the city is a great place, although fog bound for a couple of months during the year, or at least it felt that way when I lived there (4 years).

For my money if you want to live in Zug go for Unterägeri (Canton of Zug) which is above the fog for most of the time, sure in the winter you might get a little more snow, but no matter.

But hey, if you got that much money don't go to the German part at all, come to the French part which has friendly (Suisse) people, better weather and better value property/rents. (OK, yes higher taxes too).
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Old 19.07.2011, 20:59
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

If you have such an high budget you might want to consider getting a relocation agent , they will know all the insights and will narrow all the possibilities down for you.
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Old 19.07.2011, 21:15
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

Well as an american, what you do not pay in Switzerland you will pay in the US so the tax situation does not need to be the primary reason for location.
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Old 19.07.2011, 21:15
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

Hello and Welcome

For Me I'd go Lucern over Zug any-day. Better looking better acting city.

My Sister could help you with this, she has been here 12yrs now and really knows about the property and taxes, she is just about to launch a personal service for expats on such alongside her extensive language business. If you PM me I can pass you her details...

Nice place you're coming from 'tho, I miss it there. I was the east bay, Orinda / Walnut Creek Contra Costa area Lost of time spent in Sausalito and your city tho
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Old 19.07.2011, 21:21
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

Yes, the International School of Zug and Luzern. My husband recommended you take a look at a few of the more exclusive property websites to get a feel of property prices, value etc.

Doris Bader (property in Kanton Luzern and the nearby Hergiswil, in Kanton NW{low taxes there too})
http://www.domba.ch/index.php?id=32&flash=true

Engel & Völkers (property in Zug)
http://www.engelvoelkers.com/ch/zug/

The first website is available in English & the second only in German as far as I can see. Here are a few translations of important terms you will be seeing a lot of, some more predictable than others:
Mieten/Miete=Rent
Kaufen/Kauf=Buy
Objekttyp=Property type
Haus=House
Wohnung=Apartment
Grundstück=Land/piece of land/land size
Gebiet=area/suburb
Wohnfläche =total house/flat floor measurement, usually in m2
Zimmer=rooms/total amount of rooms (this includes ALL living & bedrooms in Switzerland)
Schlafzimmer=Bedrooms
Preis=Price

Feel free to PM me if you need any more tips. I'm not actually in the property business, however my husband is an architect here, so knows a lot about the 'Swiss' ways. I am by no means advertising for him!!! so please do not take this in that way. I love this forum and hope that I can occasionally be of some assistance! Oh, and Luzern is also really close to the mountains, if you & your family like skiing : )
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Old 19.07.2011, 23:05
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

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Well as an american, what you do not pay in Switzerland you will pay in the US so the tax situation does not need to be the primary reason for location.
Agree, the local tax deal will simply put you on the top of the IRS's tax list if you are a Green Card Holder, Resident, Or Citizen..... Thats a very good point Mert.
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Old 20.07.2011, 02:17
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

Relocation agents I learned on this forum charge one month's rent for their services or in my case maybe about 9,000. That is a lot of money for such a short amount of hours. Even if they take me around for six 4 hour half days, which seems like a lot, they will be getting about 375 per hour. Too much. Likewise they will also get paid one month's rent from the home owner if it is a rental.

I am American and will have to pay taxes on the company I own in the USA, but my wife is not and she owns our business abroad which would escape being taxed by the USA if we move to Switzerland and are approved for Lump Sum taxation. Of course she will return her Green card once we move (she has only had it for 1.5 years).

As advised I had already planned our first meeting in Switzerland with a tax advisor.

Lookinf forward to checking out Luzern too to have options, maybe they get fog too? FOG doesn't bother us too much as we have lived for the past two years near San Francisco.

Where are the micro climates that are low with not much snow, but blocked somehow from the fog?
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Old 20.07.2011, 02:41
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

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Hello!

Was wondering if money was not a problem, where is the absolute best places to explore to live in Zug? Our absolute top of the budget is about $12,500 Swiss Francs per month to rent, hopefully it will be a lot cheaper, or if we buy not more than $4,500,000 Swiss Francs, likewise, hopefully cheaper.

We prefer a house with a view with a little larger yard for the 3 little boys to run and play or next to a park. Lake front with a view would be ultimate but perhaps out of our budget? Maybe on a mountain with a view and close by a nice town or in a nice town with a lot of useful resources (supermarket, restaurants, etc).
Well that's challenging! Guaranteed that question has not been asked before!
For $12,500 you could probably get a big city apartment check this (friend of mine), the place has a huge terrace so will be plenty of space for the boys to play, if you want view though I would suggest Walchwil it's simply unbeatable in terms of scenery.
Have you considered getting two places? A place that is central and convinient during the week and a place for the weekend up a mountain somewhere in Klosters perhaps? Should still cost less than $12,500 for both!
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Old 20.07.2011, 02:59
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

Wow. That is an, um, pretty, um, difficult budget you have there.

So few options.
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Old 20.07.2011, 07:35
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

Hey Natasha, I knew I might have a lot of options, I just wanted some help to know what those options might be. I have never been to Switzerland before and I am going to explore and want to see some of the most beautiful places I might be able to live, but by looking at a map might not be the best way. Just want my wife to fall in love with the place so that I wouldn't have any trouble convincing her to move the family there. By seeing potential neighborhoods where we might live it makes it an easier choice.

Any suggestions on what to take a look at while we are there?

So far I got a lot of great choices.

Hey guys what about Cham or Baar? What about other nice places to live near Luzern?
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Old 20.07.2011, 07:42
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

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Hey Natasha, I knew I might have a lot of options, I just wanted some help to know what those options might be. I have never been to Switzerland before and I am going to explore and want to see some of the most beautiful places I might be able to live, but by looking at a map might not be the best way. Just want my wife to fall in love with the place so that I wouldn't have any trouble convincing her to move the family there. By seeing potential neighborhoods where we might live it makes it an easier choice.

Any suggestions on what to take a look at while we are there?

So far I got a lot of great choices.

Hey guys what about Cham or Baar? What about other nice places to live near Luzern?
No. I live in Zug somewhat towards Cham, but having lived there before I don't recommend it. It feels a bit poorer, is farther from the breathtaking hills, etc. Baar is ok, but you can do better. If commuting to work via trai isn't a requirement, I recommend the Ägeri areas; otherwise, Wachwil is a pretty good choice.
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Old 20.07.2011, 09:15
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I am American and will have to pay taxes on the company I own in the USA, but my wife is not and she owns our business abroad which would escape being taxed by the USA if we move to Switzerland and are approved for Lump Sum taxation. Of course she will return her Green card once we move (she has only had it for 1.5 years).
Just make sure my friend. I had a colleague from Norway whos wife was arrested and deported on a trip to the US because she moved out of the country with out filing taxs. I think there is a 10 years grace period.

But other than that you are correct. She should be able to shoulder the finances etc..... The biggest problem is that there has been a bit of a turkey hunt for Americans here in CH. So if they see you have lived in the US, are a US citizen or have been a green card holder, they wont let you have bank accounts or a tax agreement. A client from Canada is currently living in Zug on a tax agreement. He was almost rejected because he spent more that 30 days in the US the prior year.

Also, my local Kantonal banker has told me last year that if a Swiss citizen has lived in the US for more than 12 of the last 24 months he/she has had their account closed at the bank. So be prepared to tell everyone you havent been to the US for years and only show them your ROC passport.

As you are here on a fact finding mission you will get plenty of feedback soon enough, I am sure of it.
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Old 20.07.2011, 09:27
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

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Any suggestions on what to take a look at while we are there?

Hey guys what about Cham or Baar? What about other nice places to live near Luzern?
Zug city, Baar, Cham, Steinhausen and Rotkreuz all have potential in Zug but have limited to no view but are very convinient and hence why a lot of people live there.

Places with view will be either on the Zugerberg (good luck with that) or along the east side of the lake so Oberwil and Walchwil.

Can't say anything about places closer to Luzern...
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Old 20.07.2011, 13:59
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

Actually, now reading the continuation of this thread I think this is somewhat of a moot point; If you have never been to Switzerland you should experience it first, there are a lot more things to take into account than the taxes and the "look" of the area, if you end up somewhere where the locals hate you they can make life as difficult as hell!!!! (and I mean go out of their way to cause you trouble)
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Old 20.07.2011, 14:16
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

This thread confuses me. I see two options:

1. You care about tax and money above most things (it seems that way, as you don't want to pay under £10K for a relocation agent) and hence you should simply live in a place which gives you the best tax treatment.

2. You care more about location than money in which case Zug is not likely to be the right place. Maybe Switzerland isn't the right country.

For either option, it seems odd that you ask on here without taking a couple of weeks and exploring the (small) country you plan on spending quite some years living in.
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Old 20.07.2011, 14:27
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Re: Best place in Canton Zug with high budget

You do realize that food and living expenses will be more expensive here than in the US, don't you? You may pay less taxes but you'll pay more for other things.

It is quite possible that you will not be happy here even if you save money. They've got lots of rules and laws and your neighbours will make sure you follow them.
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