Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15.08.2011, 11:00
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: zurich
Posts: 40
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 16 Times in 9 Posts
admorgan has earned some respectadmorgan has earned some respect
Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

I'm in a sticky situation. I have rented a furnished apartment for 6 months. I paid a deposit of 1 month's rent at the start of the rental period. I have never had complete privacy in the apartment as I have to enter it through my landlady's house. She has on occasion had access to my apartment and at one point claimed it wasn't clean enough and that I would "damage" the bathroom and kitchen if I didn't keep them cleaner. I have endeavoured to keep it reasonably clean and, anyway, my contract states that it must be cleaned by a named cleaning firm at the end of the contact (end of this month). She had also previously tried to get me to sign up for additional cleaning at CHF 250 a month which I declined. She didn't like that.

Anyway, last week she wanted to show the apartment to a potential renter and left a typewritten letter for me asking me to tidy up and clean it for a viewing. I removed all my clutter from view, vacuumed and cleaned bathroom and kitchen. It was not how you would leave it at the end of a rental period, but it wasn't disgusting by any means.

When I got home (late) on the day of the viewing I realised she had cleaned further. One day later she confronted me and said (in German) that she was disappointed in me and "sad" that the place was so dirty. She also made some nasty personal remarks. She said that she had cleaned for 3 hours and got a witness in from a cleaning firm to confirm how dirty it was. Two of the things mentioned were a cooking tray inside the oven and the WC which I had closed anyway. Why would she open these things on a viewing?

She has told me that I must pay for the additional cleaning she did, I refused. She said she would contact my company and tell them to take it from my pay!! Looks like I'll see nothing of my deposit and she wants more money.

Any advice on what my rights are and what I can do? Surely if the apartment can be cleaned at the end of my rental contract and there is no damage then she should be happy and has no grounds for complaint?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15.08.2011, 11:06
Rangatiranui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baden region
Posts: 2,184
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,469 Times in 1,088 Posts
Rangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Thanks for reminding me to clean the oven...

I should be fired from my day-job(!)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15.08.2011, 11:40
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,131
Groaned at 170 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post
Surely if the apartment can be cleaned at the end of my rental contract and there is no damage then she should be happy and has no grounds for complaint?
Correct. But as it seems you've allowed her to go into your apartment when she likes, and clean it, you're obviously not living like a normal tenant.

If it were me I'd move out.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 15.08.2011, 11:45
TidakApa's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Top of a Triangle
Posts: 2,992
Groaned at 38 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 5,673 Times in 2,039 Posts
TidakApa has a reputation beyond reputeTidakApa has a reputation beyond reputeTidakApa has a reputation beyond reputeTidakApa has a reputation beyond reputeTidakApa has a reputation beyond reputeTidakApa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

I can't beleive she can just waltz in like your mother and clean the place.


If she is n breach of your contract (and privacy), just move out.


The place only has to be clean to the landlords specifications upon moving out........ not during your occupancy.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank TidakApa for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 15.08.2011, 11:48
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 17,041
Groaned at 649 Times in 502 Posts
Thanked 25,827 Times in 10,410 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post

Anyway, last week she wanted to show the apartment to a potential renter and left a typewritten letter for me asking me to tidy up and clean it for a viewing. I removed all my clutter from view, vacuumed and cleaned bathroom and kitchen. It was not how you would leave it at the end of a rental period, but it wasn't disgusting by any means.
Why is she doing that. Are you planning to leave anyway?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 15.08.2011, 11:54
Textoch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas, USA (formerly Vaud, CH)
Posts: 1,201
Groaned at 25 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 3,058 Times in 937 Posts
Textoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post
One day later she confronted me and said (in German) that she was disappointed in me and "sad" that the place was so dirty. She also made some nasty personal remarks.
Sounds like you are living with you mom.

Write off the deposit and find a new place to live; one where your landlady won't be trying to manage your business.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Textoch for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 15.08.2011, 11:57
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,894
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

guess the six months are up.
Honestly I would simply leave your deposit and leave the place at the end of the contract. thats what she can use the money for (cleaning) sounds like she is gonna keep it anyways) If you do need to rent further it might be dangerous as many times they contact a previous tenant.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15.08.2011, 12:22
quark's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Aargh-Ow!
Posts: 1,321
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 1,838 Times in 756 Posts
quark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

I'd get in touch with (and join) your local Mieterverband asap.

http://www.mieterverband.ch/zh_top.0.html

The small outlay you pay in membership might well be less than the money they save you in this case. You might also find that your landlady changes her tune when she realises you have someone with expert knowledge of the local law on your side.
Reply With Quote
The following 14 users would like to thank quark for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 15.08.2011, 12:49
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post
She has told me that I must pay for the additional cleaning she did, I refused. She said she would contact my company and tell them to take it from my pay!! Looks like I'll see nothing of my deposit and she wants more money.

Any advice on what my rights are and what I can do? Surely if the apartment can be cleaned at the end of my rental contract and there is no damage then she should be happy and has no grounds for complaint?
Tell her to eff off and she is more than welcome to write to your company trying to claim the money back for that 3 hours of cleaning. Any sane person will laugh her out of town.

The state of your apartment during your tenancy is none of her business. You took the time to tidy up - just not up to her standards. She has zero rights to clean your apartment. The only right you've given her is to allow people to view the apartment, and not invade your privacy with all that silly cleaning. The fact that she is charging you for it, without your express permission is seriously taking the piss.

First and foremost, go to your company's HR and explain the situation just in case she really makes good her threat to recover the money from your company. They might also be able to help/advise you on how to deal with this nutter. Finally, the mieterverband suggestion is a good one. Give them a call ASAP and explain the situation. You'd have to be a member for a period of time before you can gain access to their legal services, but right now, if I am not wrong, you can pay for advice. Seek their opinion to see if the situation warrants a strongly worded letter from the Mieterverband to her.

From what you've written, you're going to need it when the time comes for moving out. So do it now. Dont let that Cleanliness-Nazi walk all over you.
__________________
Remember when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown, BUT it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and b****-slap the mother-f***er upside the head.
Reply With Quote
The following 15 users would like to thank summerrain for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 15.08.2011, 12:53
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: zurich
Posts: 40
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 16 Times in 9 Posts
admorgan has earned some respectadmorgan has earned some respect
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post
Correct. But as it seems you've allowed her to go into your apartment when she likes, and clean it, you're obviously not living like a normal tenant.

If it were me I'd move out.
It was in the contract that she could access the place (on a day's notice) as she had some things in storage there. I gave her permission to enter the place to show it to the potential new tenant, NOT to clean it.

I'm moving out anyway Aug 30th.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 15.08.2011, 12:55
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,198
Groaned at 63 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post
Sounds like you are living with you mom.

Write off the deposit and find a new place to live; one where your landlady won't be trying to manage your business.
If OP wasn't moving out anyway, I'd say that, I don't think writing off a deposit and simply picking up and moving is an option, folks. Did we forget how hard it is to come up with a deposit in Switzerland?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank KeinFranzösisch for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 15.08.2011, 12:55
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: zurich
Posts: 40
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 16 Times in 9 Posts
admorgan has earned some respectadmorgan has earned some respect
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Thanks for all the replies. Backs up what I thought. I suppose the deposit has to be written off but she will get nothing else out of me.

(edit) Just to add that it was always the case that she would arrange final cleaning and that it would come out of my deposit (in the contract).
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 15.08.2011, 12:59
NSchulzi's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 2,422
Groaned at 52 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,523 Times in 1,215 Posts
NSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond reputeNSchulzi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post
It was in the contract that she could access the place (on a day's notice) as she had some things in storage there. I gave her permission to enter the place to show it to the potential new tenant, NOT to clean it.

I'm moving out anyway Aug 30th.
It sounds as though your landlady has really been taking the piss. Has she always given you one day's notice before entering your flat? Also, I don't think that her using your place for storage is appropriate (unless you are talking about the cellar).

Luckily you are leaving on the 30th. If I were you I would pay for a thorough professional clean on your departure so that the battleaxe will have no grounds for witholding your deposit.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank NSchulzi for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 15.08.2011, 13:03
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for all the replies. Backs up what I thought. I suppose the deposit has to be written off but she will get nothing else out of me.
I dont understand why the deposit has to be written off? You havent exactly trashed the place have you? As long as you are using the cleaning company that she has named in your contract initially, and not wrecked anything, I dont see why you should roll over to think that the deposit will be denied, other than wanting zero hassle. She has stated that you should use a cleaning company of her choice - which means that she has used their services before and is pleased with them.

On principle, I wouldnt let it go so easily. I dont know how much rent you are paying but a month's deposit is good money which can go a long way - she cant go around terrorising people with her petty ways. GAH!!!! People like this wind me up!!!
__________________
Remember when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown, BUT it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and b****-slap the mother-f***er upside the head.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank summerrain for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 15.08.2011, 13:06
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: zurich
Posts: 40
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 16 Times in 9 Posts
admorgan has earned some respectadmorgan has earned some respect
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post
It sounds as though your landlady has really been taking the piss. Has she always given you one day's notice before entering your flat? Also, I don't think that her using your place for storage is appropriate (unless you are talking about the cellar).

Luckily you are leaving on the 30th. If I were you I would pay for a thorough professional clean on your departure so that the battleaxe will have no grounds for witholding your deposit.
She hasn't always given notice, but let me know on two occasions when I was away for the weekend that I had left lights on and she went in to turn them off (not really sure I did leave them on).

As I stated already, she had chosen a cleaning company to do it and will take the cost from the deposit.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 15.08.2011, 13:08
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: zurich
Posts: 40
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 16 Times in 9 Posts
admorgan has earned some respectadmorgan has earned some respect
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post
I dont understand why the deposit has to be written off? You havent exactly trashed the place have you? As long as you are using the cleaning company that she has named in your contract initially, and not wrecked anything, I dont see why you should roll over to think that the deposit will be denied, other than wanting zero hassle. She has stated that you should use a cleaning company of her choice - which means that she has used their services before and is pleased with them.

On principle, I wouldnt let it go so easily. I dont know how much rent you are paying but a month's deposit is good money which can go a long way - she cant go around terrorising people with her petty ways. GAH!!!! People like this wind me up!!!
There is one repair necessary, to the shower door, which was in pretty poor condition to begin with.

Deposit is CHF 1650, how much does it cost to clean a 2 1/2 room apartment ?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 15.08.2011, 13:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: north
Posts: 6,132
Groaned at 218 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 5,100 Times in 2,636 Posts
rob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

repair the door yourself before handing the keys back otherwise she will just replace the whole door unit and take that from the depo, and if the door isnt available anymore guess what will be replaced!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank rob1 for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 15.08.2011, 13:19
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 3,979
Groaned at 99 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Quote:
View Post
Deposit is CHF 1650, how much does it cost to clean a 2 1/2 room apartment ?
About half of the deposit probably.....round numbers

The thread reminds me of my time with an allotment here in Switzerland where the Swiss garden owners used to tut at the lack of straight lines in my lettuce planting, the bendiness of my courgettes (no laughing at the back) and they kept my deposit because the shed didn't look like an operating theatre at the end of my stay (to be fair - it did at the handover from them, so they had a point....but life is too short to scrub shed floors!)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 15.08.2011, 13:20
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

Mention to her that you would like to clarify the situation with the Mietverband because you are unsure of your rights.

This might be enough for her to back down; she's probably capitalising on the fact you are a foreigner and can be pushed around because you don't know the rules.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 15.08.2011, 13:31
J_T's Avatar
J_T J_T is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: near Bern
Posts: 1,080
Groaned at 20 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,175 Times in 523 Posts
J_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with Landlady over Apartment Cleanliness

I'd be willing to bet she pockets the money and runs the same routine with the next tenant.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank J_T for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Inviting girlfriend over to Switzerland - health problems picketf Insurance 52 11.08.2010 14:26
What to do???? [problems with apartment, already signed off on it] BaselIndian Complaints corner 37 21.04.2010 15:54
Problems with apartment - complaint and payment of rent to third party zourab Housing in general 6 18.09.2008 18:52
Problems from my over-mieter.. Morph Complaints corner 8 16.10.2007 14:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0