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  #21  
Old 15.08.2011, 18:42
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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I am looking at the rectangular hole in the front of CHICLET and it looks all plastic. I will insert tester screwdriver to see if the rectangular hole is live. From visual inspection It seems that the single rectangular opening in the front has no metal bit inside. Also in the bedroom (working lamp) I see the lamp side wire goes into one of the 5 holes and not the front rectangular single opening. So I will have to insert the wire at the back in one of the 5 holes.
Ok, look similar to mine, but clearly aren't. If there are others in the house with a working example, then follow those. You know the old saying, 'The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from...'

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Power switched off, rubber shoes on, wooden stool and a tester screwdriver at hand. You people make me really nervous
My dad was an EE and I learned how to zap myself at a tender young age. If you can avoid it, it's a good thing to do.

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Hook is already there, look carefully between the green and brown wire
Lucky you! I had to insert 6 of the damn things in my apartment.
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  #22  
Old 15.08.2011, 18:43
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

First of all be sure the power is turned off. The center of the lamp bulb has to go to the live connection, and the outside of the lamp bulb must go to the neutral connection. Metal lamps have a safety frame connection and this must go to earth.

The "chicklet thing" grips a bare wire when pushed into it. There are single connection types, and multiple connection types. You have two blue wires going to the multiple 5 position connection type.

Find or buy 3 short lengths, each about 5 cm long, of solid copper wire, similar to that coming out of the ceiling. Take about 5 mm of insulation off each of these ends (6 ends total) It would be nice if they are the same colours as those already at the ceiling. It is possible to cut off the "doodah" and push the wires into the "chicklet" but it is not recommended at all.

Connect the centre lamp connection on the live "chicklet" to the live "doodah"
Connect the outside lamp connection on the neutral "multi chicklet" (Any position 2, 4 or 5) to the neutral "doodah".
Connect the earth "chicklet" to the centre earth connection "doodah"

In the ceiling surrounding the hole where the wires are is a block of wood. Now hook or screw the lamp to the ceiling wood. Most people use a long cup hook, but there is also a special device, a Lampenkraller. Looking for it now..here it is, small & large sizes -> http://www.mercateo.com/kw/lampenkra...enkrallen.html

Finally, screw in the lamp bulb and power on the lamp

Last edited by Ittigen; 15.08.2011 at 18:56.
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  #23  
Old 15.08.2011, 18:44
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

I hate the hooks, hate the hooks, hate the hooks, hate the hooks. My house is 120 years old, and it's nearly impossible to insert them and get them to stay. My daughter's lamp keeps creeping 1mm/day.
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  #24  
Old 15.08.2011, 18:53
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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I hate the hooks, hate the hooks, hate the hooks, hate the hooks. My house is 120 years old, and it's nearly impossible to insert them and get them to stay. My daughter's lamp keeps creeping 1mm/day.
You need to buy some of these, Lampenkraller You put it into the large hole in the ceiling, turn the hook and the teeth extend to grip the sides of the wood. Be careful not to trap a wire behind the teeth!

http://www.mercateo.com/kw/lampenkra...enkrallen.html

http://www.mercateo.com/p/115-340817...lle_klein.html

They are in Coop and Migros and "Baumarkt" shops that sell electrical installation stuff

http://www.ricardo.ch/kaufen/handwer...v/an645259278/
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Old 15.08.2011, 18:57
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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First of all be sure the power is turned off. The center of the lamp bulb has to go to the live connection, and the outside of the lamp bulb must go to the neutral connection.
Sorry, but MUST is the wrong word.

While it is perhaps desirable, it will work just fine the other way.

I NEVER trust sockets to be wired this way.

Tom
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  #26  
Old 15.08.2011, 19:05
Ittigen
 
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

Tom you once claimed to be an electrical engineer, but I never see any confirmation. You MUST put the live onto the center lamp contact, otherwise you can get an electric shock when you change the lamp bulb.

Of course it will work the other way, but not safely, and not to Swiss standards. PLEASE do not write that in Tessin it is different!
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  #27  
Old 15.08.2011, 19:08
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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Sorry, but MUST is the wrong word.

While it is perhaps desirable, it will work just fine the other way.

I NEVER trust sockets to be wired this way.
Probably a good rule of thumb around these parts as I have 6 receptacles and all of them are slightly differently wired. I figure it's a mixed bag due to years of do-it-yourselfers which makes me very nervous when dealing with them. I don't understand, and have never understood, why lamps aren't standard kit in rentals in the EU. I didn't mind it so much when I owned apartments, but with rentals? I mean, if I can't paint the walls, should I really be allowed to ignite the building while messing around with the wiring?
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Old 15.08.2011, 19:11
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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You MUST put the live onto the center lamp contact, otherwise you can get an electric shock when you change the lamp bulb.
Only if you touch the outer contact (and who would do that, I surely never have!)

An intelligent person would assume that it could be wired in a non-standard way, a fool would assume otherwise.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 15.08.2011, 19:18
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

OP - what should be ABSOLUTELY clear by now is that you need to seek professional help! Whilst EF is a wonderful place in many different ways....getting a definitive answer on ANYTHING is impossible, even something to which there is ONLY ONE FREAKIN' ANSWER, like the CORRECT way to fit a light.

So either

1. Get a professional or go to a professional website
or
2. Follow the advice of the two people on here who know what they are talking about (it should be clear who they are....they are the ones who aren't saying, for example......"f*** it, try it, should be ok" or "a little shock will put hairs on your chest")

(For what its worth.....I'm an electrical engineer by trade....and I'd rather you did No1 coz the wiring looks a bit of a mess to me, but there is SOME good advice on the thread)
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  #30  
Old 15.08.2011, 20:25
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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What colour are the lamp wires? Green and two brown it looks like on the photo...but it can't be??
Middle one is green and the other two are silver.
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  #31  
Old 15.08.2011, 21:46
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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The center of the lamp bulb has to go to the live connection"
Hey man thanks for the post BUT I think you have got the wires crossed maybe? Unless you are trying to knowingly kill me? Centre of the lamp connection is Earth and if I connect ceiling live to it then won't the whole metal lamp act like an electric chair?

Here let me post better photos along with the lamp instructions. It shows what I am planing to do. So PLEASE tell me if I am thinking correctly?



AM I CORRECT??????

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  #32  
Old 15.08.2011, 21:56
Ittigen
 
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

If you can't follow my directions then get some help.

It was misleading, I am sorry, I have rephrased it.


Connect the outside lamp connection on the neutral "multi chicklet" (Any position 2, 4 or 5) to the neutral "doodah".

Connect the earth "chicklet" to the centre earth connection "doodah"

Connect the live "chicklet" to the live "doodah" so the centre of the light bulb is live.

If C is connected to the center of the lamp bulb then you are correct.
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  #33  
Old 15.08.2011, 22:12
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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Hey man thanks for the post BUT I think you have got the wires crossed maybe? Unless you are trying to knowingly kill me? Centre of the lamp connection is Earth and if I connect ceiling live to it then won't the whole metal lamp act like an electric chair?

Here let me post better photos along with the lamp instructions. It shows what I am planing to do. So PLEASE tell me if I am thinking correctly?



AM I CORRECT??????

I am a Carpenter (not an electrician) so you can take my advise or leave it. But your above diagram looks perfectly acceptable to me. I installed all the lights in my Swiss flat and completely rewired my old flat back in the UK and have yet to shock myself. Just make sure that the electricity is off before doing any work. Anytime I am doing electric work I still just switch off ALL the electricity at the fuse box just to make sure.

I would congratulate you on giving it a go, electricity is something to be very wary of, but there is no reason to never learn anything about it and I'm glad I can do simple electric work in my home.
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  #34  
Old 15.08.2011, 22:28
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

hmm. what you call a 'chicklet' i assumed was a safety device. i put all the cables into one of them. someone will have a surprise when the press the light switch...
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  #35  
Old 15.08.2011, 22:33
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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If C is connected to the center of the lamp bulb then you are correct.
Well A and C go to the light bulb. B is connected to the metal centre washer/bolt thing.So according to you my planned connection is wrong then

I never thought this would give me so much headache lol I am off to bed.

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Old 15.08.2011, 22:34
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

what i did was to pull all the wires out of the 'chicklets' and connect them directly to the appropriate dooda's on the lamp. unfortunately, i didn't have an earth cable, so i'm a bit screwed if anything comes loose...
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Old 15.08.2011, 22:40
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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I am a Carpenter (not an electrician) so you can take my advise or leave it. But your above diagram looks perfectly acceptable to me. I installed all the lights in my Swiss flat and completely rewired my old flat back in the UK and have yet to shock myself. Just make sure that the electricity is off before doing any work. Anytime I am doing electric work I still just switch off ALL the electricity at the fuse box just to make sure.

I would congratulate you on giving it a go, electricity is something to be very wary of, but there is no reason to never learn anything about it and I'm glad I can do simple electric work in my home.
Well I was all set to attempt it but now I am not sure after Ittigen's post I am thinking of getting an electrician.
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Old 15.08.2011, 22:48
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

Let me try to understand it slowly

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Connect the outside lamp connection on the neutral "multi chicklet" (Any position 2, 4 or 5) to the neutral "doodah".
All clear. Which according to my gold fish brain means X to A.


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Connect the earth "chicklet" to the centre earth connection "doodah"
All clear. Which to me means Y to B.

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Connect the live "chicklet" to the live "doodah" so the centre of the light bulb is live.
Which to me means Z to C. So basicalyl it matches what I suggested in my earlier post? Although I don't understand what you mean by the bolded part.
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  #39  
Old 15.08.2011, 22:59
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

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Only if you touch the outer contact (and who would do that, I surely never have!)

An intelligent person would assume that it could be wired in a non-standard way, a fool would assume otherwise.

Tom
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Let me try to understand it slowly





Which to me means Z to C. So basicalyl it matches what I suggested in my earlier post? Although I don't understand what you mean by the bolded part.
See picture:



A lamp bulb needs two electrical connections. One is the screw thread, the other is the shiny middle at the base of the bulb. This is what he means by the middle.

It was suggested to make sure that the neutral is wired to the screw-thread bit of the lamp holder and the live to the middle bit of the lamp holder.

You will get a bit more protection like this as it's quite difficult to touch the live middle bit of the lamp holder when changing a bulb.

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Only if you touch the outer contact (and who would do that, I surely never have!)

An intelligent person would assume that it could be wired in a non-standard way, a fool would assume otherwise.


Tom
Tom is saying that it doesn't matter as he wouldn't touch either contact (in case it had been wired wrongly.
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  #40  
Old 15.08.2011, 23:00
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Re: Ceiling wire connection confusion (image included)

Do you have one of those screwdrivers with the neon lamp in the handle?

Go ahead and wire it up as per your last post. Screw in the light bulb. Switch on and see if the light works.

Next day buy one of those nasty screwdriver testers. Ask your next visitor to check if the 220 volt live connection
is to the center of the light bulb connection (And not to the outside).

As I think I explained, if it is wrong you will get an electric shock when you change the lamp.
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