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Old 20.08.2011, 21:55
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what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

We have running bamboo that was planted by a previous owner of our property more than 7 years ago now invading our neighbors property (actually it has been invading his property for many years but only now is he stirred up about it). He came to us this week with his gardner in tow and wants us to pay a minimum of Sfr 12,000 to have it COMPLETELY removed roots and all. This entails removing a stone retaining wall that the bamboo sits on, removing all the roots and dirt and replacing it with new dirt...HELP, any advice? 12,000 is the low end of the quote. We are flummoxed? What are our rights? What might be other solutions for controlling the bamboo? We don't want to be bad neighbors but 20,000 Swissies. Come on! We live in Kanton Zurich, in case that helps.
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Old 20.08.2011, 22:05
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

I can't help with any practical advice but, to me, it sounds like a legal matter. Can you get a lawyer involved - if you didn't plant the bamboo it shouldn't be your full duty to remove it. Maybe you should be liable for a portion of it but certainly not the full whack.
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Old 20.08.2011, 22:18
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

I have no idea what your rights are, but if it was there before you bought the place I'd be inclined to tell him to get lost.

Unless it's invaded 20 acres of his land I'd say 20K was a bit steep... sounds like he's taking the p***

Maybe you could bill him for stealing your bamboo...
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Old 20.08.2011, 22:52
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

There's an insurance you can take out which covers your costs in case of a legal dispute between you and a neighbour. I would look into it with a lawyer asap and maybe consider getting some cover in case things turn nasty.

He hasn't written to you yet so bide your time, tell him you're looking into it, don't give him a verbal answer until you are sure of your rights.

He has allowed the bamboo in his garden for seven years and but suddenly decides he wants rid, wanting you to pay. I am no lawyer, but afaik, as it has been seven years, the most he can get you to do is use an effective, deep barrier to prevent the bamboo running again once he has got rid of it in his garden.

You also need to talk to a gardener, preferably one with some expert knowledge of bamboos, to see if you can find an alternative/cheaper solution to the problem.
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Old 20.08.2011, 23:02
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

I doubt if the fact that it was planted by a previous owner would have any bearing on the matter. In general, if you own the property, you accept responsibility for everything that comes with it.

It is not as if you could plead that you didn't know it was there.

It sounds a lot of money, but these things do have a habit of escalating. As well as checking insurance and legal matters as suggested by others, I suggest getting several independent quotes.

Here is some basic info on the potential scale of the problem

http://www.completebamboo.com/bamboo_removal.html
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Old 20.08.2011, 23:04
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

maybe look into the insurance and delay for the 3 months. maybe you're already covered by your obligatory house insurance?

why don't you simply cut the plant at the root and lay in a deep barrier to stop roots from crossing over the boundary?
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Old 20.08.2011, 23:24
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

...yikes, that is what I was afraid of. The bamboo info page was useful. The long-term maintenance and eradication strategy is what OUR gardener is employing but that is not a timeframe either HE or HIS GARDENER our happy with. They want it gone, ASAP! Thanks for your thoughtful response.
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Old 21.08.2011, 00:20
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

Have you spoken with anyone in your local Gemeinde regarding the rules for plants, trees and neighbour boundaries?

I was told by our Gemeinde that once a tree/shrub is established, 3 years old(?), there is little you can do other than ask a neighbour nicely to cut back his/her tree, but he/she, by law, doesn't have to. I know this is different as you have an invasive bamboo but it would be interesting to hear what the Gemeinde have to say.

Something is not quite right: when he didn't raise the problem for years, and especially not with the previous owner, to suddenly expect you to remove it immediately at great cost to you is not on. If you are planning on removing it anyway and with your own gardener's advice/ instruction, there is very little he can do, he just has to wait.

Is he planning on selling his property by any chance?
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Old 21.08.2011, 01:01
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

Snookums, you might want to browse the Hauseigentumerverband websites for some basic Nachbarrecht information:

http://www.hev-schweiz.ch/recht-steuern/nachbarrecht/

and HEV Zurich:
http://www.hev-zuerich.ch/recht/haeu...fragen.htm#a18
(Half way down the page)
http://www.hev-zuerich.ch/ms-zeitsch...-201007-12.htm


These kinds of disputes can get very ugly very fast - and tend to be very expensive. To repeat other poster: you need solid legal advise ASAP.

Speaking very generally, as you now own the property you inherit the responsibilities and liabilities.

The 'objection' Frist (5 years in ZH) only applies to plants/trees on your property - your neighbor may complain about anything that invades or damages his property at any time.

To give you an idea:

The previous owner of our house had planted an ash tree 2.8 meters away from the property line. The tree had been there some 20 years. Shortly after we moved in a neighbor asked us to cut the tree down, as the set-back should have been 3 meters. I was not required to do so because the tree had been there more than 5 years. The objection Frist had run out, so the neighbor must tolerate the 'illegal' tree on my property for it's natural lifetime.

However - I am responsible for all the ash seedlings and leaves that fall onto the neighbor's side of the fence. I have to weed out any seedlings, rake any leaves that fall into the neighbor's garden, or pay for a gardener to do it. The objection Frist does not come into play here, as the 'damage' is to the neighbor's property.

And, should any of those seedlings land on my property short of the 3 meter set-back and sprout into a new tree, a new objection Frist starts, and the neighbor has 5 years to demand that this new tree be cut down.

But there is another consideration - the tree may not grow beyond a certain height (5 or 8 meters, depending on location), ever - there is no objection period, neighbors can demand that the tree be pruned to regulation height at any time, even on a hundred year old tree.

(Why am I suddenly humming Joni Mitchell's 'Yellow Taxi'? I'll never understand why many folks here seem to dislike Mother Nature so much... especially as we live auf dem Land.)


ETA:

A bit of further googling brought up this article on the subject of Nachbarrecht and Bamboo:

http://www.heckenpflanzen.ch/downloa...ichersicht.pdf

And K-TIpp:

http://www.ktipp.ch/beratung/1052215...mbus_entfernen

.

Last edited by meloncollie; 21.08.2011 at 01:53.
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Old 21.08.2011, 07:45
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

This is what I was thinking too. He has been in full knowledge that it was there and even has his own bamboo on his side of the fence but his bamboo is the non-running kind. I don't think they are planning on moving. They are sprucing up the yard though. Thanks for the feedback. We are definitely going to the Gemeinde!!!!
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Old 21.08.2011, 07:51
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

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Snookums, you might want to browse the Hauseigentumerverband websites for some basic Nachbarrecht information:

http://www.hev-schweiz.ch/recht-steuern/nachbarrecht/

and HEV Zurich:
http://www.hev-zuerich.ch/recht/haeu...fragen.htm#a18
(Half way down the page)
http://www.hev-zuerich.ch/ms-zeitsch...-201007-12.htm


These kinds of disputes can get very ugly very fast - and tend to be very expensive. To repeat other poster: you need solid legal advise ASAP.

Speaking very generally, as you now own the property you inherit the responsibilities and liabilities.

The 'objection' Frist (5 years in ZH) only applies to plants/trees on your property - your neighbor may complain about anything that invades or damages his property at any time.

To give you an idea:

The previous owner of our house had planted an ash tree 2.8 meters away from the property line. The tree had been there some 20 years. Shortly after we moved in a neighbor asked us to cut the tree down, as the set-back should have been 3 meters. I was not required to do so because the tree had been there more than 5 years. The objection Frist had run out, so the neighbor must tolerate the 'illegal' tree on my property for it's natural lifetime.

However - I am responsible for all the ash seedlings and leaves that fall onto the neighbor's side of the fence. I have to weed out any seedlings, rake any leaves that fall into the neighbor's garden, or pay for a gardener to do it. The objection Frist does not come into play here, as the 'damage' is to the neighbor's property.

And, should any of those seedlings land on my property short of the 3 meter set-back and sprout into a new tree, a new objection Frist starts, and the neighbor has 5 years to demand that this new tree be cut down.

But there is another consideration - the tree may not grow beyond a certain height (5 or 8 meters, depending on location), ever - there is no objection period, neighbors can demand that the tree be pruned to regulation height at any time, even on a hundred year old tree.

(Why am I suddenly humming Joni Mitchell's 'Yellow Taxi'? I'll never understand why many folks here seem to dislike Mother Nature so much... especially as we live auf dem Land.)


ETA:

A bit of further googling brought up this article on the subject of Nachbarrecht and Bamboo:

http://www.heckenpflanzen.ch/downloa...ichersicht.pdf

And K-TIpp:

http://www.ktipp.ch/beratung/1052215...mbus_entfernen

.
Thanks for the excellent feedback and links!!!!!
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Old 21.08.2011, 07:54
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

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Have you spoken with anyone in your local Gemeinde regarding the rules for plants, trees and neighbour boundaries?

I was told by our Gemeinde that once a tree/shrub is established, 3 years old(?), there is little you can do other than ask a neighbour nicely to cut back his/her tree, but he/she, by law, doesn't have to. I know this is different as you have an invasive bamboo but it would be interesting to hear what the Gemeinde have to say.

Something is not quite right: when he didn't raise the problem for years, and especially not with the previous owner, to suddenly expect you to remove it immediately at great cost to you is not on. If you are planning on removing it anyway and with your own gardener's advice/ instruction, there is very little he can do, he just has to wait.

Is he planning on selling his property by any chance?
Thanks Swisstree for the advice! I am new to this posting stuff so haven't figured out all the available tools for responding
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Old 21.08.2011, 12:18
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

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This is what I was thinking too. He has been in full knowledge that it was there and even has his own bamboo on his side of the fence but his bamboo is the non-running kind. I don't think they are planning on moving. They are sprucing up the yard though. Thanks for the feedback. We are definitely going to the Gemeinde!!!!
The Gemeinde were a great help to us six years ago when we had a crazy dispute with our neighbour - probably because, with hindsight, our odd neighbours were known to them.
Even with the advice and help from the Gemeinde re the law, our neighbours still went ahead and took us to court.. once the lawyer letters started pouring through the door, it was too late, as the case was pending, to avail of the special insurance you can take out that covers you in cases like this.. this is why I urge you to seek some legal advice quickly, before things escalate, and cover yourself. Even though the Gemeinde has rules and regulations for your area, a court can over ride them and rule in your neighbour's favour, if he has a strong enough case and a good lawyer.

Our neighbours lost their case against us, no surprise there, as they were clearly in the wrong but sometimes it is not that simple..

Good luck Snookums, hope you come out of this with ease and with very little hassle/ stress
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Old 22.08.2011, 00:34
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

We have running bamboo but they are in planter pots on a terrace. The gardener told us that if we want to plant them in the ground they need to be planted in a way to contain them...or else.

Unfortunately in your case that was not done. Many people do not think to consult a gardener before buying a property, and this can mean you inherit the previous owner's mistakes.

Fortuna offers legal insurance, the premium is a few hundred francs a year. Well worth it as many disputes are covered.
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Old 22.08.2011, 08:35
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

Couple of things:

1) Ash trees. We cut ours down at the the start of the year on advice from the local lumberjacks - neither of whom "like" Ash trees in residential areas!

2) Roots. We are building a new fence at our house - and need to uncover the old concrete retaining wall. About 2m of this was under soil. The soil contained a lot of roots. It took 3hrs to do it - the roots were upto 10cm in diameter. It was an enormously frustrating, tedious and time consuming job. Not sure it is a 12-20k chf job though!
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Old 22.08.2011, 10:41
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

It's not a question of your rights. It's a question of your obligations. The answer may vary from Canton to canton. I looked into this because my neighbour has planted bamboo on his side of our common boundary. I've checked with the Commune and a Vaud lawyer. Here's what I learned as far as the law in Vaud concerned:
1. You can't stop anybody planting bamboo. There is no law against planting invasive species.
2. But if it's a new plantation, you can get him to prevent it spreading to your land. Any new plantation of anything must be at least 50cm from the common boundary and must be kept to a maximum height of 2 metres. Anything closer or higher than that needs the neighbour's consent. These must subsequently be respected as the plant grows.
3. If the plantation grows higher than that and the neighbour doesn't object for several years, then he has to lump it unless there are exceptional circumstances.

I am making my neighbour respect the limits so he has to stop it creeping into my garden by respecting the 50 cm rule. Also I have sent him a written notice with that request, with a copy to the Commune. That way nobody can say I consented.

The only way you can stop running bamboo is to put in an anti rhyzome barrier - stiff plastic sheet. The depth you need to go depends on the variety of bamboo.


As others have said, talk to your Gemeinde and have a word with a local lawyer. My guess is, if the bamboo was planted years ago, if he did not object, if it has been on his own land for years and he did nothing to control it, then you shouldn't be responsible for removing it from his land. But this is cantonal, not federal law and your canton may see things differently from mine.
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Old 03.10.2011, 10:36
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

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The only way you can stop running bamboo is to put in an anti rhyzome barrier - stiff plastic sheet. The depth you need to go depends on the variety of bamboo.
Here is a link with some pictures (sorry only in German) on what you need to plant to contain running bamboo.
http://bambuspflanzen.de/shop/index....zomsperre.html

In this link you will see some pictures and an explanation of what does not work and just how bad the problem can get, even into the cellar walls.
http://bambus-lexikon.de/rhizomsperre.html

Not all bamboo are the running type, for example, Fargesia are not.
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Old 03.10.2011, 11:19
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

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We have running bamboo that was planted by a previous owner of our property more than 7 years ago now invading our neighbors property (actually it has been invading his property for many years but only now is he stirred up about it). He came to us this week with his gardner in tow and wants us to pay a minimum of Sfr 12,000 to have it COMPLETELY removed roots and all. This entails removing a stone retaining wall that the bamboo sits on, removing all the roots and dirt and replacing it with new dirt...HELP, any advice? 12,000 is the low end of the quote. We are flummoxed? What are our rights? What might be other solutions for controlling the bamboo? We don't want to be bad neighbors but 20,000 Swissies. Come on! We live in Kanton Zurich, in case that helps.
Independently of your rights, 12,000 CHF sounds ridiculous to me. There are many ways to get rid of bamboo. The easiest is to take a spade to it. Bamboo roots don't go deep and they don't attacking things like walls so you definitely don't need to replace those.
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Old 03.10.2011, 12:29
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

I think Bamboo is a nature plant and they just grow and you have no influence in it ... what would happens if I plant some sun flowers and all the seeds blowing around like they do in the fall and next year all the neighbors getting sun flower ... are you liable? I think it's nature, sue the nature!
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Old 03.10.2011, 12:56
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Re: what are my rights? -- invading bamboo

I am on the same side of the neighnour issue as you except mine are 4 x 5m high boundary trees (each over 25 years old). Our outcome was a horrendous illegal rude awakening from our Swiss neighbours. Welcome to the neighbourhood with a good kick in the teeth.

The tree issue we have/had has also led to us having to replace the retaining wall. 20 000chf +++ is what we have also been quoted. We are now on our 3rd supplier and eagerly awaiting their quote.

However with regard to bamboo. I have seen bamboo root systems actually break through the side of a concrete swimming pool wall, foundations and parameter walls. Rather get it under control now, before you are paying thousands repairing yours and your neighbours property and foundations.

Our Gemeinde has handouts on all the restrictions regarding gardens. Tree heights, wall heights, access, distance from neighbours, etc, etc. Great pictures too so there really is no confusion (including on the neighbours part).

Once last note : Careful they don't take action and plead a misunderstading due to the language barrier before you get around to deciding what you want to do. Once the bamboo is gone. It is illegal to plant new, even if they removed it illegally.
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