Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19.09.2011, 00:50
DJHannibal's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich (greater area)
Posts: 91
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
DJHannibal is considered knowledgeableDJHannibal is considered knowledgeableDJHannibal is considered knowledgeable
Advice on Ceiling Light Wiring

Hello All,

I appeal to all EF'ers for some advice! I have been hanging lights in my new flat (on a Sunday??? OMG!!!) and discovered a small issue. I know my way around wiring etc. but cannot get my head around this problem. I have described the problem below and attached the pictures.

Goal: Hang two lights in the hallway (identical IKEA lights, halogen, 2 bulbs)
Layout: Hallway has two sockets and two switches which operate both lights simultaneously
Before: The light at the door is a simple bulb fixture. Other socket is empty. Light works with both switches.
After: I removed the light at the door, installed the new light, flipped the fuse and it would not "turn over". So I flipped the fuse another time but it would still not turn over. Then I tried a third time and it stayed up, but when I tried the light switch the light would not turn on. Then I installed the second light, flipped the fuse on and bingo, the second one turns on but not the first. Huh??
Socket 1 (doorway - working originally but not now): Red, Blue, Yellow/Green
Socket 2 (hallway - empty before, working now): 2xRed, Blue, Yellow/Green

The light fixture is drilled into the ceiling, but I did not hit any cables (not really likely anyways). If I had, the second light would also not be working as it is on the same wiring...along with the bathroom and kitchen.

Would appreciate any advice, I have tried all possible combinations and still cannot decipher the issue. See photos for details of the wiring and layout.

Thanks so much in advance!
Attached Thumbnails
advice-ceiling-light-wiring-img_3294.jpg   advice-ceiling-light-wiring-img_3295.jpg   advice-ceiling-light-wiring-img_3298.jpg   advice-ceiling-light-wiring-img_3300.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21.09.2011, 22:27
ipoddle's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: basel
Posts: 813
Groaned at 20 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 714 Times in 306 Posts
ipoddle has earned the respect of manyipoddle has earned the respect of manyipoddle has earned the respect of many
Re: Advice on Ceiling Light Wiring

I think I posted something similar...in the end... you can try to just stick various wires into various sockets and hope for the best, or you can call in an electrician. Swiss wiring is absolutely unbelievable.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ipoddle for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 21.09.2011, 22:30
KB88111
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice on Ceiling Light Wiring

you have a short somewhere. Try one light at a time and bank on green/yellow being earth - I've seen all sorts of colours used for the rest!!

Either you have a mis-colour or your lamps have a metal bit that's causing a short.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21.09.2011, 22:47
DJHannibal's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich (greater area)
Posts: 91
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
DJHannibal is considered knowledgeableDJHannibal is considered knowledgeableDJHannibal is considered knowledgeable
Re: Advice on Ceiling Light Wiring

Solved the problem! Both red live wires go into the SAME plug bit (I was suprised). I had always learned to never cross two live wires, but hey well...

So now everything is working :-)

Thanks everyone for their advice and I would keep this open for future electrical dilemma seekers
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21.09.2011, 22:51
weejeem's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: .
Posts: 3,728
Groaned at 37 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 5,874 Times in 2,467 Posts
weejeem has a reputation beyond reputeweejeem has a reputation beyond reputeweejeem has a reputation beyond reputeweejeem has a reputation beyond reputeweejeem has a reputation beyond reputeweejeem has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice on Ceiling Light Wiring

Socket2 in the hallway doesn't look entirely right - can you post a picture from the other side of the connector block?


>>> ETA - as you've just found out yourself

Last edited by weejeem; 21.09.2011 at 22:52. Reason: Not fast enough!!!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21.09.2011, 22:56
The_Love_Doctor's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zugerberg, Zug
Posts: 2,960
Groaned at 69 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,238 Times in 1,546 Posts
The_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice on Ceiling Light Wiring

Quote:
View Post
Solved the problem! Both red live wires go into the SAME plug bit (I was suprised). I had always learned to never cross two live wires, but hey well...

So now everything is working :-)

Thanks everyone for their advice and I would keep this open for future electrical dilemma seekers
Well looks like the doorway live is picking the live from the hallway live hence why you have two reds that need to be joined together so that the doorway light has some electric... a bit of a cowboy job but it's very common to pick a live from a nearby light fixture rather than from a distribution box.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank The_Love_Doctor for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 22.09.2011, 00:01
weejeem's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: .
Posts: 3,728
Groaned at 37 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 5,874 Times in 2,467 Posts
weejeem has a reputation beyond reputeweejeem has a reputation beyond reputeweejeem has a reputation beyond reputeweejeem has a reputation beyond reputeweejeem has a reputation beyond reputeweejeem has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice on Ceiling Light Wiring

Quote:
View Post
a bit of a cowboy job but it's very common to pick a live from a nearby light fixture rather than from a distribution box.
Or alternatively- since there are two fittings switched by two switches (with three wires at one fitting and four at the other - one of the reds is the switched live from the "two-switch comb" and the other continues that switched live to the other fitting.

The wiring as shown doesn't strike me as particularly cowboy, but perhaps does emphasis the point about knowing what you're doing, and knowing how to work a multimeter safely in the vicinity of live wires to figure out what's what
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank weejeem for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 22.09.2011, 00:05
DJHannibal's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich (greater area)
Posts: 91
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
DJHannibal is considered knowledgeableDJHannibal is considered knowledgeableDJHannibal is considered knowledgeable
Re: Advice on Ceiling Light Wiring

I bear no shame in saying that the electrician came to sort it out, he explained what the problem was but did not say why that was. I don't mind though since I didn't pay, it was a favor from my concierge :-)

Thanks though everyone again for your input. Some poor soul who finds this thread may see a ray of hope!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank DJHannibal for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 22.09.2011, 00:30
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,212
Groaned at 64 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice on Ceiling Light Wiring

I think I took one look at that same situation and decided to buy my way out of it. much easier on the brain.

http://www.mm-elektrocontact.ch/
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05.11.2011, 10:30
West Coast's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bassersdorf
Posts: 56
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 31 Posts
West Coast is considered knowledgeableWest Coast is considered knowledgeableWest Coast is considered knowledgeable
Advice with wiring lighting please!

Hello EF! I was hoping that I may be able to get some advice with doing some wiring in our new flat. We just moved in on the first and of course there was a ton of lighting that needed to be installed. I have installed all the main lights myself already. I've got a handle on that.

The question I have is regarding the kitchen light. It was a very standard (and ugly) florescent ballast, that you would find in most kitchens. Now when I went to remove the ballast, it had some extra wires. It had 1 live wire, 2 neutrals and 2 grounds. Once I removed the light and flipped the power back on none of the outlets in the kitchen work! My wife and I are now resorted to make our tea and toast on the living room floor! :S

Here is a picture of the ballast and the connection points.


And here is a picture of the wires.


Now I am assuming that the kitchen outlets are grounded and neutralized through the ceiling ballast. And that I would need a wire connector that is similar to the one mounted to the ballast. To connect the extra neutral and ground wires. Am I right in assuming this? I really don't want to shock myself or cut out the power to the entire block! Any help would would be most appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05.11.2011, 11:07
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 4,004
Groaned at 110 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice with wiring lighting please!

What was connected to what before you removed it?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05.11.2011, 11:42
West Coast's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bassersdorf
Posts: 56
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 31 Posts
West Coast is considered knowledgeableWest Coast is considered knowledgeableWest Coast is considered knowledgeable
Re: Advice with wiring lighting please!

Quote:
View Post
What was connected to what before you removed it?
This wiring configuration looked like this. (I apologize for my shoddy photoshop work!)

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05.11.2011, 11:43
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Switzerland, Aargau
Posts: 139
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 45 Times in 29 Posts
Caribeangeorge has made some interesting contributions
Re: Advice with wiring lighting please!

Well, it is not rocket science!

Most likely, Phase (hot wire in US terms) goes straight to the outlet. You could measure with a voltmeter towards ground or neutral, should be 240V.

If you measure between ground and neutral, it should read 0, otherwise you have an unit leaking trough.

Its against the rules to take hot for lights AND for outlets, They should be separated. So one feed to the outlet, one feed to the fixtures.

If this is OK, then, in this case, the neutral feeds to the light fixture, is split there, one for the light, one for the outlet. Same with ground wire.

As per your pictures, the ground is separated and not joined together, so is the neutral! You need to bridge them - or put all 3 neutrals in one sleeve so they have contact with each other. Repeat this with the ground wire.

George
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05.11.2011, 11:53
West Coast's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bassersdorf
Posts: 56
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 31 Posts
West Coast is considered knowledgeableWest Coast is considered knowledgeableWest Coast is considered knowledgeable
Re: Advice with wiring lighting please!

Quote:
View Post
Well, it is not rocket science!

........
Thanks for the reply.

As for the picture with the wires. I only put the contacts on them to keep them from being bare while the power was switched back on. As for 3 neutral wires, where would the third come from? (there is only two in the picture) As for the rocket science comment, it is to someone who has never done this before! ;p

I'm pretty sure that if I set it up as it exactly as it was, then the sockets should work again. No?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05.11.2011, 12:06
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 9,856
Groaned at 149 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 13,746 Times in 5,582 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice with wiring lighting please!

I'd suggest very strongly that as you're not entirely certain, you get an electrician in. Swiss lighting is often non-standard, in my experience - especially the older it is.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 05.11.2011, 12:07
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Switzerland, Aargau
Posts: 139
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 45 Times in 29 Posts
Caribeangeorge has made some interesting contributions
Re: Advice with wiring lighting please!

yes, they should

Well, I don't see the whole "picture" in your picture...

I just see a connector with 3 wires, looking to me that you split it there and then
- Feed
- to fixture
- to outlet
= 3 wires


It could be also wired this way: (this I can't see...)

Neutral feed goes to fixture, split there and the feed continues to outlet.
Then you would have only two wires.

George
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05.11.2011, 12:17
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Switzerland, Aargau
Posts: 139
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 45 Times in 29 Posts
Caribeangeorge has made some interesting contributions
Re: Advice with wiring lighting please!

Quote:
View Post
I'd suggest very strongly that as you're not entirely certain, you get an electrician in. Swiss lighting is often non-standard, in my experience - especially the older it is.
Yes, but must be very old building, and then the only difference is that neutral and ground are not separated all the way, but joined together in the panel. - by the way US Standard - forbidden here.

At least I don't have seen any live ground wire here in Switzerland, in opposite to the US where is is very common to find up to 90V on ground. Very often AirCo units leaking through.

Or 20A breakers, never trip, but the plastic of the wires melting and dripping (short circuit) - good old SquareD type!

George
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05.11.2011, 14:50
Big Mara's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Berner Jura
Posts: 360
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 598 Times in 236 Posts
Big Mara has a reputation beyond reputeBig Mara has a reputation beyond reputeBig Mara has a reputation beyond reputeBig Mara has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice with wiring lighting please!

Quote:
View Post
This wiring configuration looked like this. (I apologize for my shoddy photoshop work!)

West coast
I hope you are still living, after the replys you have recieved.

The problem is very simple, if you look at the connection on the old lamp.
The holes on the left are in pairs, take the ground for eg. if you put a wire in both holes you will have a through connection, between the 2 holes on the left and the 1 hole on the right.

The purple wire is your live wire. It comes from the lightswitch.

What you must do is first is look that there is no electrick on the live wire and leave it in the black connector.
Now take the 2 blue wires (Neutral) and put them together in the black connector (in the same hole). Then you can put the 2 green-yellow wires together in the 3rd hole of the connector.

You have on your sockets power, on the live, but no connection on the neutral. When you put the 2 neutrals together it makes the connection again.
The same goes for the ground.
Hope it helps.
Salut Zämma
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Big Mara for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 06.11.2011, 11:01
West Coast's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bassersdorf
Posts: 56
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 31 Posts
West Coast is considered knowledgeableWest Coast is considered knowledgeableWest Coast is considered knowledgeable
Re: Advice with wiring lighting please!

Quote:
View Post
Hope it helps.
Salut Zämma
Yes it did Big Mara. Thank you! That was exactly what I was thinking, I just wanted to be sure. Connect the neutrals and the grounds into the same connector. Worked like a charm. No more tea and toast on the living room floor!

Thank you for providing me with the most straight forward answer!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 23.11.2011, 21:18
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,048
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Another Electric Wiring Thread

Okay, I've looked over the existing 'wiring' threads, and some of them even feature photos of these things, but I didn't see an explanation of what they actually are. The apartment I'm scheduled to occupy has one of these coming out of the ceiling of every room.

Could anybody possibly explain what these things are, and perhaps how they might spare me from having to do any wiring (or hiring)?
Attached Thumbnails
advice-ceiling-light-wiring-thing.jpg  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diy, electrical, wiring




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ceiling Light wire colours ipoddle Housing in general 18 05.11.2011 12:03
"electrical" question [wiring light fixtures] jakobo Housing in general 59 30.03.2011 11:03
Wanted Ceiling Light Zürich (Chandelier type) ibk Items wanted 0 02.10.2010 00:16
Free Ikea Ceiling Light [Basel] AMP Free stuff 4 30.11.2009 13:51
Mounting a Ceiling Light mgmidget72 Housing in general 17 17.07.2007 16:36


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0