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  #21  
Old 26.09.2007, 11:01
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

And have you ever locked yourself out of your apartment? My neighbor did and Schaeppi Grundstucke does not keep the key of any tenants. Neighbors had to get a locksmith to break the lock which then forced them to replace ALL locks and keys of the apartment. A very expensive mistake! As per my suggestion, they now keep a spare key in their office.

fduvall

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Has anybody ever tried to get a copy of a key made to their apartment? It's a logistical nightmare full of paperwork, more paperwork, signed paperwork and the weeks of waiting, followed by CHF 50.

Soooooo different from the US where you take your key to be copied, walk into a Key Smith, wait 2 minutes, pay $2 and out you go.
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  #22  
Old 26.09.2007, 11:39
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

I hope I never lose one of the master keys at work. It would involve the necessary change of around 4000 locks... :-O
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  #23  
Old 26.09.2007, 14:16
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

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Has anybody ever tried to get a copy of a key made to their apartment? It's a logistical nightmare full of paperwork, more paperwork, signed paperwork and the weeks of waiting, followed by CHF 50.

Soooooo different from the US where you take your key to be copied, walk into a Key Smith, wait 2 minutes, pay $2 and out you go.
Or where anyone can take your keys from your bag, get them copied in a flash, slip them back and you're none the wiser. I prefer the Swiss holey keys system .
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  #24  
Old 26.09.2007, 14:19
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

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And have you ever locked yourself out of your apartment? My neighbor did and Schaeppi Grundstucke does not keep the key of any tenants. Neighbors had to get a locksmith to break the lock which then forced them to replace ALL locks and keys of the apartment. A very expensive mistake! As per my suggestion, they now keep a spare key in their office.
The apartment I described above was managed by Schaeppi, and they are very keen on accounting for lost keys when you hand the apartment back.

The previous tenant to me had forgotten one of the keys when visiting relatives in the UK. If he hadn't found it, he would have had to pay for new locks and keys for the entire house.

Adequate insurance is a must.

And yes, I can confirm that Schaeppi don't hold keys themselves. (There's an amusing story there, which I'll tell over a beer sometime)
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  #25  
Old 26.09.2007, 14:24
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

The hammer method doesn't work in most US locks, most good locks have "fake out" tumblers that if clicked will prevent the lock from turning to prevent this, (they would also prevent the neat movie trick where you fill the key hold with plastic etc. because that too would hit the fake tumblers).
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  #26  
Old 26.09.2007, 14:35
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

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Or where anyone can take your keys from your bag, get them copied in a flash, slip them back and you're none the wiser. I prefer the Swiss holey keys system .
Just as bad were the limited number of 3-lever locks the UK used to put into new houses.

When I was a kid, we were told that if we locked ourselves out, the Smiths' back door key fitted our front door, and the Jones' front door key fitted our back door.

This was still common practice when I bought my first house. The builders had even scratched the relevant key number on the door handle of each house. One of the first jobs before I moved in was to fit new door locks, but they also beat me to that, and stole all the light bulbs and cleaning gear I had already installed.
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  #27  
Old 26.09.2007, 16:09
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

When we were kids, if we were ever locked out there was always a spare key under the mat .

Last edited by Nairda; 26.09.2007 at 19:51. Reason: spells
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  #28  
Old 26.09.2007, 16:48
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

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...normal Swiss keys with holes "all over the place"...
That's the real truth about Swiss keys: They were built out of Emmentaler in former times.

... and nqnln, you should play the lottery!
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  #29  
Old 03.10.2007, 20:13
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

I had no problem having additional keys made at "Mister Minit" for a small cost. Does this mean my key (which opens the door to the building AND the door to my apartment) is not very secure? The key has MANY holes (16) of varying sizes, and a groove down the middle.
--Lorelei
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  #30  
Old 03.10.2007, 20:21
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

Sounds like a Kaba key.
Did you not have to show you were entitled to have copies made?
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  #31  
Old 03.10.2007, 20:25
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

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I had no problem having additional keys made at "Mister Minit" for a small cost. Does this mean my key (which opens the door to the building AND the door to my apartment) is not very secure? The key has MANY holes (16) of varying sizes, and a groove down the middle.
--Lorelei
I guess that's a Kaba 8 then (might not be written on the copy though)? They aren't patent protected anymore and still much better than standard keys with teeth but less complex than the newer Kaba 20 and Kaba Star. I think they're secure enough if you don't borrow the key to dubious individuals and if the door is newer than the Kaba 8 patent.
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  #32  
Old 03.10.2007, 20:29
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

No, I had to show nothing. The keys have the words "Mister Minute" on them. I had these duplicate keys made about ten years ago, so maybe things have changed since then.
--Lorelei
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  #33  
Old 30.11.2016, 12:58
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

i know this post is very old but since i gathered some experience with keys i share it here
If you lose your key, you are responsible of the caused cost, excluded the minderwert = age of the lock (30 years lifetime)
insurance usually doesn't cover loss of keys, only additional packages do
you can always ask kaba informaton about the number of produced keys with your code, so landlord's word can be checked
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  #34  
Old 30.11.2016, 13:26
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

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insurance usually doesn't cover loss of keys, only additional packages do
I have the opposite opinion. If you're a tenant, private liability insurance should usually cover it as tenants damages. It's subject to your contract with insurance though, and you'll be expected to pay some part of the costs
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  #35  
Old 30.11.2016, 13:59
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

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I read somewhere that these keys we use in Switzerland are very safe and difficult to copy. Imagine my surprise then this evening when I accidentally used the key to my office desk to try and enter my apartment block (they all look the same) and hey presto: access was granted. I tried again with another work key and the same thing happened.

Now while my apartment remained fortified to all but the intended key, I intend on contacting my landlord about this (if it is to work for two of my random keys, I am sure it will work for many more random keys, regardless of whose hands they are in) as I'd like to think the front door is there for some level of neighbourly security.

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon with their keys, or have I a magic set?
Is your office in the same building as your flat?

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Well I was in England last year and tried to see if I could get some duplicates made for a couple of quid instead of the Fr 50 each that my landlord was asking. Not one single locksmith could / would do it. They all said that I needed a special serial number or something which is unique to every key made.
These type of looks are registered, keys can only be made with the signature of the owner. (Try getting one in Switzerland without permition of the owner, same thing).

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what i find odd is that my apartment door key also opens the main building door, how on earth can this work?
That is on purpous, so you don't need two separate keys. It's normal.
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  #36  
Old 30.11.2016, 15:57
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

Can someone explain in layman's terms how 1 key can be used to open a mailboy, front door and flat door? If everyone in the building has this type of key, how come we can all open the front door, but not each other's flat doors?
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  #37  
Old 30.11.2016, 16:03
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Re: Swiss keys and their security level

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Can someone explain in layman's terms how 1 key can be used to open a mailboy, front door and flat door? If everyone in the building has this type of key, how come we can all open the front door, but not each other's flat doors?
Imagine your key is like a comb with pins and spaces between

5 digit example:

1 _ 1 _ 1

To open the main door, keys that belong to the same group must have a common sequence of digits (in this example the first 3).

1 _ 1 X X

To open your home door, you need to have the correct 5 digits:

1 _ 1 _ 1 for your apartment and 1_ 1 _ _ for your neighbour

Hence you both can open the main door, but your key won't open his apartment.

In reality, those ups and downs are not just 5 digits, it's a bunch of them - making possible common combinations difficult, therefore safer.

Is this clear enough?
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