Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09.10.2011, 19:17
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
acgeld has no particular reputation at present
Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

We have recently moved to Zürich and not familiar with the heating system. Can somebody please give me some guidance. We have 3 controllers in the apartment and then in one of the batrooms behind a cover there are 6 valves( zimmer 1, zimmer 2, bathroom, dusche/wc, küche, essen/living area), with a flow indicator for the valve. Each bedroom has a controller and then there is one in the living area which I assume must then be for both bathrooms as well as the living area and kitchen.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09.10.2011, 19:19
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,417
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 10,952 Times in 3,253 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

... er, what was the question? or did you figure it out already?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 09.10.2011, 19:28
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,518
Groaned at 582 Times in 457 Posts
Thanked 24,722 Times in 9,952 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

Quote:
View Post
We have recently moved to Zürich and not familiar with the heating system. Can somebody please give me some guidance. We have 3 controllers in the apartment and then in one of the batrooms behind a cover there are 6 valves( zimmer 1, zimmer 2, bathroom, dusche/wc, küche, essen/living area), with a flow indicator for the valve. Each bedroom has a controller and then there is one in the living area which I assume must then be for both bathrooms as well as the living area and kitchen.

Is your place too warm, or too cold, or just right?


If it's just right then don't touch anything.

Generally you don't need to touch the flow valves.

If it's too cold then turn up the thermostats a small amount. It will take a few hours to a day to notice the change.

The bathrooms will not be connected to the room thermostats. These will have a constant flow in the winter to keep them warm.

If everything is cold, it may be that the heating has not yet been switched on.

As Mathnut suggested - what do you need to know?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 10.10.2011, 13:36
Gordon Comstock's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 375
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 615 Times in 254 Posts
Gordon Comstock has an excellent reputationGordon Comstock has an excellent reputationGordon Comstock has an excellent reputationGordon Comstock has an excellent reputation
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

Quote:
View Post
It will take a few hours to a day to notice the change.
If you're not used to underfloor heating this is very important. You must leave time for the effects of any change to be felt. It's all to easy to think that nothing's happened and that you need to adjust the heating further. Then in a day or so's time you're boiling/freezing and then you over compensate in the opposite direction.

The temperature in our house described a sine wave for the first few weeks after we moved in, until it sank into my thick head what was happening.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Gordon Comstock for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 11.10.2011, 00:20
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
acgeld has no particular reputation at present
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

The thing is I am unsure as to how to set the mixing valves at the main controller. The valves have flow meters and in each bedroom there is also a big knob where you can adjust the heat, I assume these knobs are dependant on the flow meters?

My place is a little too warm is it ok if I close all the valves as well as the knobs in the rooms?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11.10.2011, 00:53
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,417
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 10,952 Times in 3,253 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

You shouldn't normally need to adjust the valves at all, the knobs in the individual rooms should do it.

If you turn down all the knobs / close all the valves, you will turn the heating off completely, and this time tomorrow night you will be too cold. Then you will turn them all back on, and so the next night you will be too warm again...

Turn them down (the knobs, not the valves) a little bit, wait 24 hours and repeat if necessary. If you are too warm in the meantime, open a window.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11.10.2011, 15:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 6,509
Groaned at 129 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 7,889 Times in 3,677 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

Quote:
View Post
The thing is I am unsure as to how to set the mixing valves at the main controller. The valves have flow meters and in each bedroom there is also a big knob where you can adjust the heat, I assume these knobs are dependant on the flow meters?

My place is a little too warm is it ok if I close all the valves as well as the knobs in the rooms?
You should call the property manager and ask them to show you how the system works. You should not have to touch the valves at all. NEVER turn off the heat completely as most leases state you must heat all rooms.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11.10.2011, 16:12
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,518
Groaned at 582 Times in 457 Posts
Thanked 24,722 Times in 9,952 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

Quote:
View Post
The thing is I am unsure as to how to set the mixing valves at the main controller. The valves have flow meters and in each bedroom there is also a big knob where you can adjust the heat, I assume these knobs are dependant on the flow meters?

My place is a little too warm is it ok if I close all the valves as well as the knobs in the rooms?
It's now clear that you do not understand how the heating works at all as you don't understand the correlation between the flow-valves and the thermostats.

The thermostat is just an on/off switch which switches, on and off depending on the temperature to which it is set. If you turn the knob, at a certain point you will hear it click. (Don't turn it unless you can remember the position it was originally set at so you can put it back).

The on/off switch within the thermostat operates a valve which in turn, is on/off in operation. i.e. water is either flowing or not flowing.
You can here a click if you listen an turn. This is the point where the switch is operating.
It won't be at the same point going one way compared with the other due to a kind of mechanical hysteresis.

The flow valve controls the rate of flow. You do not need to touch the flow valve.

This is why:

Along a section of pipe used in the under-floor heating, there is a temperature gradient. One end is hot and comes from the boiler. One end is cooler and goes back into the boiler.

If a particular pipe is twice as long as another (i.e. the one that goes to the room furthest from the boiler compared with the one that goes to the nearest room) then if it had the same flow rate, the water would be cold before it got to the last section of pipe.
This long pipe will therefore be set to have a higher flow rate than the shorter pipe.

As you,as the tenant, do not have an architectural floor plan showing the pipes and their different lengths, you cannot possibly improve anything by adjusting the flow rates as you cannot know to what rate they need adjusting.

Note that the bathroom pipes normally go via the hallways with straight runs in the hallways and lots more pipes in the bathrooms. (So there's more heating in the bathroom compared with the hallways).

These typically do not have thermostatic valves as they should be constantly on in the winter to keep the bathroom walls warm to prevent mould. So don't touch the flow valves on these either.
(We don't want another post on here about mould in the bathroom )

Hope that makes sense.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11.10.2011, 23:58
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
acgeld has no particular reputation at present
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

Thank you very much for you detailed description. I appreciate it.

Unfotunately I have already experimented with the flow valves and so I probably changed the settings that was supposedly correct. I will contact my landlord and ask what to do.

Even after turning everything down it still seems a little hot in the apartment.

The building is brand new and I dont know if the heating was already configured.

Please refer to the link for photos:

[IMG]<table style="width:194px;"><tr><td align="center" style="height:194px;background:url(https://picasaweb.google.com/s/c/tra...background.gif) no-repeat left"><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/acgeld/HeatingSystemAndValves?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsit e"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5iehQrQTtns/TpSavKgnCUE/AAAAAAAAA7Q/R8X6FThC2C8/s160-c/HeatingSystemAndValves.jpg" width="160" height="160" style="margin:1px 0 0 4px;"></a></td></tr><tr><td style="text-align:center;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px"><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/acgeld/HeatingSystemAndValves?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsit e" style="color:#4D4D4D;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;">Heating System and Valves</a></td></tr></table>[/IMG]

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11.10.2011, 23:59
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
acgeld has no particular reputation at present
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

Sorry for the long link......here is a better one....

https://picasaweb.google.com/acgeld/...eat=directlink
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12.10.2011, 08:27
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,356
Groaned at 42 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 6,459 Times in 2,966 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

Even with the heating completely off, you will find the house warm. If you are in an apartment, you will also be affected by the habits of the other tenants, and if you are on the top floor, it will take the rising heat of the other floors too...

So you open a window. Air the apartment/house completely, twice a day, for ten minutes with all the windows wide open. Then you close it all back up again.

I'm assuming you are in a single house, to have access to the mains and feel that it's OK to play with it. I think you would be well advised to contact your landlord. The heating is set to handle all winter, not just the 'borderline' season that we are having now.

Our heating went on last Sunday, and we realised that some of the knobs were on in various rooms (been played with or bumped since last winter)... once we turn those off, it's not so warm...but the background heating is still running...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank swisspea for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 12.10.2011, 09:44
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,518
Groaned at 582 Times in 457 Posts
Thanked 24,722 Times in 9,952 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

Quote:
View Post
Thank you very much for you detailed description. I appreciate it.

Unfotunately I have already experimented with the flow valves and so I probably changed the settings that was supposedly correct. I will contact my landlord and ask what to do.

Even after turning everything down it still seems a little hot in the apartment.

The building is brand new and I dont know if the heating was already configured.
The reason I know a bit about it as when I moved in (to a newly built place), the thermostats were not wired up to the mains (were always switched on) despite being in the fully off position and some were also wired to the wrong rooms.

If you really think there may be a problem, put the flow valves back to what they were before you started tinkering with them (I'm assuming you made a note of the flow rate first before doing anything).

Then, turn all the thermostats to off and wait a couple of days. Apart from the bathrooms and perhaps the hall, the other rooms should get a bit cooler.

However, I'm puzzled as in my previous post, I mentioned that all the rooms (apart from the bathrooms) should be linked to a valve and this is normally screwed on in place of the blue caps in your pictures.

(The bathroom will just have a blue cap). There are not any valves here. They should also have wired coming out of them linked to the room thermostats.

I think you should do the test I suggest here and then get the landlord to explain as it is not inconceivable that in your case, someone forgot to wire in the valves in place of the blue caps.

(Swiss quality being what it )
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12.10.2011, 09:51
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 2,006
Groaned at 192 Times in 87 Posts
Thanked 2,939 Times in 958 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

Set all the knobs at the halfway point, and forget it. That's what we did and had no problems.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12.10.2011, 09:54
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,518
Groaned at 582 Times in 457 Posts
Thanked 24,722 Times in 9,952 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

If it's any help, ours looks a bit like this:



You can see the valves where you have blue caps instead.


I believe, though a may be wrong, that a system with individual room thermostats, will also need the electrical thermostatic valves to turn the flow on and off.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12.10.2011, 09:58
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,518
Groaned at 582 Times in 457 Posts
Thanked 24,722 Times in 9,952 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Underfloor and central Heating - Guidance PLEASE!!

Quote:
View Post
Set all the knobs at the halfway point, and forget it. That's what we did and had no problems.
That's what we were told as well - many times over a month or so.

It's only when I got a meter out and buzzed out the wiring that we discovered the lack of wiring.

All the neighbours had the same problem, the difference between me and them is that they assumed they were paying for "Schweizer quality" and so it would be all right but I like understanding why and how things work (or didn't in this case).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
central heating, heating, underfloor




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oil central heating vs electric heating swinburne Housing in general 5 17.07.2012 13:29
simple question about central heating swisspea Housing in general 27 27.10.2010 04:17
No Central Heating in Geneva Flat MickL Housing in general 19 10.08.2010 17:30
Cost of central heating happyboffers Housing in general 15 18.11.2009 00:32


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0