Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 19.10.2011, 20:59
NewOneINseefeld's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 426
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 208 Times in 132 Posts
NewOneINseefeld is considered knowledgeableNewOneINseefeld is considered knowledgeableNewOneINseefeld is considered knowledgeable
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
I am planning to buy an apartment around Zurich and it seems quite impossible.
Well, I agree
Here, in Seefeld area, a new building is almost finished.
The location is not perfect because the trafic in Kreuzstrasse is totally crazy, all day long. View - nothing...

Price for 90 sqm flat is 1,6 milion chf (1,600.000)!

Perhaps it is really not good moment for buying a flat here
Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 20.10.2011, 00:06
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
Well, I agree
Here, in Seefeld area, a new building is almost finished.
The location is not perfect because the trafic in Kreuzstrasse is totally crazy, all day long. View - nothing...

Price for 90 sqm flat is 1,6 milion chf (1,600.000)!

Perhaps it is really not good moment for buying a flat here
Good luck!
At 17,777 m2 That 30-40% cheaper than Verbier for new builds
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 20.10.2011, 18:52
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,185
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 72 Posts
danny has earned some respectdanny has earned some respect
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
And pay a rather painful bill to Uncle Sam.

US Capital gains on property abroad are figured at the dollar exchange rate on the date of purchase against the dollar exchange rate on the date of sale. Given the tanking dollar, selling at even no CHF profit means an eye-popping USD paper profit... upon much of which I would owe tax. Yet another benefit of that blue passport...

Nah, I'm sitting tight for now.
I think if you sell at no CHF profit the paper profit or at least the tax would not be eye popping. Even the tax you may not have to pay as US authorities dont care about property owned by US persons (assuming you are one ?) in non US countries. So you can rest easy if you sell.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 20.10.2011, 18:56
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
I think if you sell at no CHF profit the paper profit or at least the tax would not be eye popping. Even the tax you may not have to pay as US authorities dont care about property owned by US persons (assuming you are one ?) in non US countries. So you can rest easy if you sell.
The CHF profit could be irrelevant if your a US person, it's the profit in USD that is taxable in the USA, it could very well be eye popping as the USD has halved in approx 15 years.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 20.10.2011, 19:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,185
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 72 Posts
danny has earned some respectdanny has earned some respect
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
The CHF profit could be irrelevant if your a US person, it's the profit in USD that is taxable in the USA, it could very well be eye popping as the USD has halved in approx 15 years.
I see your point. But a 'non resident of the US' is not liable for this capital gain tax or so I thought. Only employment income is what they are after and what is in the news sometimes.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 20.10.2011, 21:04
Vince's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Uster, ZH
Posts: 144
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 95 Times in 57 Posts
Vince has made some interesting contributions
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Here's another interesting view, from a Financial Times columnist, titled
"Swiss real estate will become the new gold", quoting an analyst from Societe Generale, who forecasts prices will continue to go up.

ZKB posts quarterly its Immobilienbarometer (in German), predicting continuation of very low interest rates in 2012, for what it's worth. ZKB in my opinion has a very good insight in the real estate market/trend in canton Zürich, better than UBS or Credit Suisse.

Amazing how completely dried out the real estate market in region Zürich is -- on average houses are sold in 27 days (!) only.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 21.10.2011, 08:06
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,016
Groaned at 173 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
Here's another interesting view, from a Financial Times columnist, titled
"Swiss real estate will become the new gold", quoting an analyst from Societe Generale, who forecasts prices will continue to go up.
Prices might go up but I would argue no faster than the rest of North Europe.

Property is not a great investment in Switzerland, otherwise more Swiss would own their own property in Switzerland.
The return on rented Swiss property is not really that great a return either.

If property was to start rising significantly, the Swiss government would soon put more controls on foreigners buying property in Switzerland and certainly not make it a viable proposition. That appears to be what they have done in the past.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 21.10.2011, 10:18
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,946
Groaned at 294 Times in 198 Posts
Thanked 18,997 Times in 7,991 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
Here's another interesting view, from a Financial Times columnist, titled
"Swiss real estate will become the new gold", quoting an analyst from Societe Generale, who forecasts prices will continue to go up.
i agree with swiss real estate being the new gold. i wrote a separate post on this somewhere else.

the market is not without risk though:

- regulatory measures on mortgages to calm the market (though you can try to get onboard before the measures are enacted)
- fiscal measures to make housing less attractive (e.g. higher taxes)

as well as normal risk:

- collapse in lending appetite leading to collapse in asset prices
- swiss banks going tits-up and taking the country with it
- CHF being worth less as a result of the SNB printing (though could be a plus side for mortgage holders looking for value of debt to be eroded)

the other point is whether the SNB peg will hold. so far it has not been seriously tested, but i see no short term improvement in the EUR situation. defending the peg when the next PIGS shock comes will cost a huge amount of money. i wonder where the SNB will recycle their newly acquired EURs since there's a limit to how many German and French bonds they can buy.
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royalty-free license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 21.10.2011, 10:26
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,946
Groaned at 294 Times in 198 Posts
Thanked 18,997 Times in 7,991 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
Prices might go up but I would argue no faster than the rest of North Europe.

Property is not a great investment in Switzerland, otherwise more Swiss would own their own property in Switzerland.
The return on rented Swiss property is not really that great a return either.

If property was to start rising significantly, the Swiss government would soon put more controls on foreigners buying property in Switzerland and certainly not make it a viable proposition. That appears to be what they have done in the past.
i disagree. i see prices moving faster than the rest of europe for the following reasons:

1. loose monetary policy (see my previous post)
2. disparity between cost of ownership and cost of renting encourages buying
3. ZIRP means few other alternatives for investment
4. traditional low owner-occupancy has meant that the swiss have been slow on the uptake (compared to the UK and Spanish housing booms) but this is gaining momentum. i can see the swiss jumping on the housing bandwagon as readily as the brits/spanish though the tighter lending requirements here might moderate that
5. potential foreign ownership restriction legislation is limited by the terms of the bilateral treaties signed. EU buyers have few restrictions.
6. with better economy than the rest of europe, i expect more migration to switzerland which bolsters the demand for housing.

on the flip side:

1. if there is a further banking crisis in switzerland, lending might be reduced which could lead to reduced asset prices
2. fiscal measures taken by the government to directly cool the housing market
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royalty-free license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 21.10.2011, 13:44
Vince's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Uster, ZH
Posts: 144
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 95 Times in 57 Posts
Vince has made some interesting contributions
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

[QUOTE=Cashboy;1383316] Property is not a great investment in Switzerland, otherwise more Swiss would own their own property in Switzerland.
The return on rented Swiss property is not really that great a return either.
[QUOTE=Cashboy;1383316]

I disagree -- one of the reasons home-owner rates in Switzerland are relatively low, is that lots of Swiss struggle to make the 20% down payment in order to get a mortgage from the bank. Swiss banks are still pretty strict with this 20% rule.

And real estate not being a great investment in Switzerland -- depends when one have bought a property. In the Zürich area, prices of apartments have steadily and significantly increased. Eg an apartment bought for say 750'000 3 years ago has appreciated ca. 24% to CHF 929'000, using this benchmark index from the ZKB. The downside is that, unless one leaves the country or moves to a less expensive region, a seller typically has to buy in the same market as well...
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 21.10.2011, 13:55
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

[QUOTE=Vince;1383805][QUOTE=Cashboy;1383316] Property is not a great investment in Switzerland, otherwise more Swiss would own their own property in Switzerland.
The return on rented Swiss property is not really that great a return either.
Quote:
View Post

I disagree -- one of the reasons home-owner rates in Switzerland are relatively low, is that lots of Swiss struggle to make the 20% down payment in order to get a mortgage from the bank. Swiss banks are still pretty strict with this 20% rule.

And real estate not being a great investment in Switzerland -- depends when one have bought a property. In the Zürich area, prices of apartments have steadily and significantly increased. Eg an apartment bought for say 750'000 3 years ago has appreciated ca. 24% to CHF 929'000, using this benchmark index from the ZKB. The downside is that, unless one leaves the country or moves to a less expensive region, a seller typically has to buy in the same market as well...
As most of the properties are new, it's saying new properties are 24% more expensive, this is not the same as a 3 year old apartment selling for 24% more, sale & purchase costs should not be underestimated.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 21.10.2011, 13:57
taskalem's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 322
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 225 Times in 125 Posts
taskalem is considered knowledgeabletaskalem is considered knowledgeabletaskalem is considered knowledgeable
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
I disagree -- one of the reasons home-owner rates in Switzerland are relatively low, is that lots of Swiss struggle to make the 20% down payment in order to get a mortgage from the bank. Swiss banks are still pretty strict with this 20% rule.

And real estate not being a great investment in Switzerland -- depends when one have bought a property. In the Zürich area, prices of apartments have steadily and significantly increased. Eg an apartment bought for say 750'000 3 years ago has appreciated ca. 24% to CHF 929'000, using this benchmark index from the ZKB. The downside is that, unless one leaves the country or moves to a less expensive region, a seller typically has to buy in the same market as well...
Totally agree. In addition to that, even if you are willing to pay 20%, the banks are looking for a minimum salary for the monthly payments. When I was buying an apartment, the minimum salary to buy a 1.3 mio house was 220K gross!

The price of the apartments increased 7.2% on average in the last year, I believe that's a nice investment.

Have a look at the article below:

Zurich (awp) - Les prix des biens immobiliers en Suisse ont continué d'augmenter durant le troisième trimestre 2011. Alors que la progression des prix des maisons multifamiliales s'est quelque peu ralentie, par manque d'offres, les prix des appartements en propriété ont continué de monter, selon une étude de la société en conseil immobilier IAZI.


Durant la période sous revue, le prix des immeubles multifamiliaux a progressé de 1,0% par rapport au trimestre précédent. En comparaison annuelle, la hausse s'est élevée à 7,2%. Le rendement des immeubles d'habitation a reculé de 2,0%.


Pour les maisons familiales, la société IAZI a constaté une poursuite de la hausse des prix qui s'est élevée à 3,3%, toujours au troisième trimestre, ce qui correspond à une progression annuelle de 5,8%.


Les hausses de prix les plus fortes sont enregistrées en Suisse romande, et particulièrement dans les cantons de Genève (+3,4%) et Vaud (+4,0%), selon le communiqué.


Source: ats
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 04.11.2011, 20:06
Vince's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Uster, ZH
Posts: 144
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 95 Times in 57 Posts
Vince has made some interesting contributions
Re: Housing prices in Zurich

Here's an interesting report from UBS, the Swiss Real Estate Bubble Index for 3Q 2011 released 3rd.Nov:
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG]


  • "The Zurich, Geneva and Lausanne regions remain Switzerland’s most risky as a result of their national importance"
  • "Continuing boom"
Looks like a new bubble, like in the early nineties, is building up...

ZKB's Immobilienbarometer for 3Q, is basically stating the same messages (in German).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
housing, zurich




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Schooling and housing in Zurich samans Family matters/health 2 13.04.2011 10:34
Housing agents / Sites for Housing in Sierre ganesh80 Housing in general 1 25.10.2010 11:58
Family housing in Zurich region julianw Housing in general 5 02.04.2009 23:20
Temporary Housing in Zurich BrUsaCh Housing in general 3 19.01.2009 21:35


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0