Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:21
SamWeiseVielleicht's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bern
Posts: 725
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 893 Times in 397 Posts
SamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
I keep coming across adverts for apartments available to rent to Swiss- is this not discrimination? Is there not a law such as the Fair Hosuing Act or such in Switzerland? I'm surprised!
One question:


Does it say "Nur Schweizer" or sth. like "Personen mit Aufenthaltsbewilligung" or "Personen mit Niederlassungsbewilligung?"

Quote:
View Post
But why would somebody only want someone with a Swiss Residence Permit?

.
Nur Schweizer is defo racist.

"Personen mit Aufenthaltsbewilligung" includes the vast majority of foreigners, so that would not be racist.

"Persone mit Niederlassungsbeweilligung" includes foreigners with a C Permit, so that would not be racist, but pushed a bit far.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:27
Xlator's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 72
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 24 Times in 11 Posts
Xlator has earned the respect of manyXlator has earned the respect of manyXlator has earned the respect of many
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Well, but that's just it, innit? It's the jumping to conclusions that I think is discriminatory. It's naive of the people offering the apartment to ASSUME that a Swiss person would never abandon a lease. Just as it's discriminatory of the people in my situation - see my "single parenthood" thread - to assume that as a single mother I can't manage a household and a job on my own (watch me get the apartment now, in which case I will make a full apology for my own assumptions here). With full knowledge of an applicant's situation and whether or not they're eligible, it's not really discrimination. But stating "Swiss only" in an ad sort of rules that out, doesn't it?

In my case, they've called my employer AND my previous rental reference (and she copied me on her very positive answer). If they've gone that far, and then turn me down only after I answer their question about whether the household includes a husband ("No"), that's a pretty clear sign of discrimination, isn't it?

I don't see any difference between the knockout criteria in each case. With me it's my status as a single parent. With the OP, it's that they're not Swiss. With someone else, it might be their age. Unless it's directly relevant to tenancy (work permit/employment status/income/number of occupants/pets), it IS, in my book, discrimination.

But apparently it is so routine here that nothing can be done about it.

Last edited by Xlator; 20.10.2011 at 13:30. Reason: additions
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:30
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post

All in all, it's not nice to feel discriminated, but even as white male, I've had my share of discriminations. It may be the first time for some of you, I understand that it must be quite a shock. I had that shock at the age of 10. I am over it now. I am sure women, dark skinned, people with overweight, gays, red haired, muslims in Europe and perhaps even Jews will know what I mean.
Add punks, vegetarians, Mormons, dog owners, motorcyclists and many more.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

The other factor that might be up for consideration is that the landlord speaks bugger-all foreign languages and can't be figged with the hassle of battling through tedious translations with his tenants.

Putting up a note saying "German speakers only" shows up his ignorance whereas "Swiss only" makes him just look a bit of a nationalist...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:34
SamWeiseVielleicht's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bern
Posts: 725
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 893 Times in 397 Posts
SamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

OP: Could you answer my question please, as this would actually allow a disscussion.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:36
herc82's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,624
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 975 Times in 605 Posts
herc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
Well, but that's just it, innit? It's the jumping to conclusions that I think is discriminatory. It's naive of the people offering the apartment to ASSUME that a Swiss person would never abandon a lease.
Nobody said that - but it is a whole lot easier to chase a Swiss national for money (unless he/she abandons everything and builds a new life overseas).

Quote:
View Post
In my case, they've called my employer AND my previous rental reference (and she copied me on her very positive answer). If they've gone that far, and then turn me down only after I answer their question about whether the household includes a husband ("No"), that's a pretty clear sign of discrimination, isn't it?
I won't state that the prospective landlord isn't discriminating, since I do not know. But they will certainly look to find a tenant that fits in their profile for that apartment. For example the number of rooms/tenant - if you have a spare room or two for you and your son, they might rather look for a bigger family. To be/seem offended that they actually check out the references is rather silly to be honest.
__________________
Nullus Anxietas - Oook
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:38
ibk ibk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 135
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 74 Times in 37 Posts
ibk is considered knowledgeableibk is considered knowledgeableibk is considered knowledgeable
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
One question:


Does it say "Nur Schweizer" or sth. like "Personen mit Aufenthaltsbewilligung" or "Personen mit Niederlassungsbewilligung?"


Nur Schweizer is defo racist.
Todays example said: Zürich Altstetten 2 Zimmer 1'200 Fr
Zu vermieten an Schweizer: heimelige, neu renovierte 2-Zimmerwohnung an ruhiger und doch zentraler Lage. Parkettböden, Bad mit Fenster.
Gefunden: www.homegate.ch
gestern, 19. Okt, 15:01 Bachmattstrasse 48
8048 Zürich [ZH]
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ibk for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,940
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,599 Times in 2,882 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
But apparently it is so routine here that nothing can be done about it.
Well, there are usually many applicants for one apartment and the landlord is free to choose. I've seen adverts specifying the place would only be rented to single women, what happens if she finds a boyfriend, does she have to move out? I prefer to be told conditions upfront, I know some people totally ignore them, I almost went nuts when looking for flatmates - what's the point in applying to an ad asking for "female, 22 - 26 years old, must be student" when you are a 37-year old divorced man working full time?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:40
TitanTurbo10's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 585
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 748 Times in 306 Posts
TitanTurbo10 has a reputation beyond reputeTitanTurbo10 has a reputation beyond reputeTitanTurbo10 has a reputation beyond reputeTitanTurbo10 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
As far as I can find out on the Internet, as long as the Landlord lives in the same building they can advertise for whoever they like.
It just feels like there should be another check box when selecting your price-range, sqm, location, ....
I know a Swiss couple who live in a pretty large apartment for just the two of them. The owner lives above them and her daughter below. The owner wanted only Swiss people who had no pets and no children. Personally, if I was Swiss I wouldn't want to live in an apartment in the seem building with an owner who was so picky. And the Swiss couple agree as the owner is always complaining and blaming them, including "funny smells". Considering the place is downwind of a farm you'd think they could figure out where the funny smells were coming from.
__________________
"Having sex is like playing bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand." --Woody Allen
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:43
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Maybe if the appartment is near to a church it helps save foreigners from coming onto the EF and complaining about bells.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:45
Xlator's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 72
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 24 Times in 11 Posts
Xlator has earned the respect of manyXlator has earned the respect of manyXlator has earned the respect of many
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
To be/seem offended that they actually check out the references is rather silly to be honest.
Talk about silliness! I am not the least bit offended by that. Rather, it led me to think that I had a pretty good shot at the apartment.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Xlator for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 20.10.2011, 13:49
Xlator's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 72
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 24 Times in 11 Posts
Xlator has earned the respect of manyXlator has earned the respect of manyXlator has earned the respect of many
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
they will certainly look to find a tenant that fits in their profile for that apartment.
Frankly I do not believe that a company that manages hundreds of properties CARES whether each tenant is a good fit. If the tenant can pay the rent and respect the terms of the lease - as I will, and that's not something they could tell even if they met me, and certainly is not guaranteed by my Swiss passport - the rest is truly none of their business.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 20.10.2011, 14:02
SamWeiseVielleicht's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bern
Posts: 725
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 893 Times in 397 Posts
SamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
Todays example said: Zürich Altstetten 2 Zimmer 1'200 Fr
Zu vermieten an Schweizer: heimelige, neu renovierte 2-Zimmerwohnung an ruhiger und doch zentraler Lage. Parkettböden, Bad mit Fenster.
Gefunden: www.homegate.ch
gestern, 19. Okt, 15:01 Bachmattstrasse 48
8048 Zürich [ZH]

Thank you very much. That is racist and dumb then. I (as a Swiss) would not rent the appartment from such people.

I doubt very much that a criminal case would be opened for that reason though (the anti-racism disposition is part of the swiss penal code).
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank SamWeiseVielleicht for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 20.10.2011, 14:32
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,953
Groaned at 295 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 19,026 Times in 8,002 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

to be honest, when i rented out my place, i had a preference for non-swiss tenant as i wanted someone i could communicate well with and also be on the same 'wavelength'.

i found the swiss to be very different from the brits and wanted to avoid any mis-match in expectations etc.

i didn't put 'no-swiss' in the advert, but i did write the advert in english, which seemed to do the trick.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 20.10.2011, 14:39
Ittigen
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
Still no answer though. Regardless of the ethics, the purpose, the desirability, and the obvious fact that making any decision is "discrimination", is it legal to specify "Swiss Only"?
Answer: yes it seems to be legal to discriminate against anyone here.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 20.10.2011, 14:40
little_isabella's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,094
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,387 Times in 550 Posts
little_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
Whatever criteria a landlord chooses a new resident over the other applicants is going to involve some discrimination to a certain extent. He might just not like the look of someone for whatever reason, maybe an applicant reminds him of an ex girlfriend that did the dirty on him or a teacher that was nasty to him as a kid.

Someone might drop into the conversation that they like hunting and the landlord might be a veggie. Or the fact they like Heavy Metal music might throw up a red flag. Who knows?

Isn't that also discrimination?
I see what you're saying here. But there's a big difference between someone's taste in music or extracurricular activities and factors that they can't control for such as their nationality and skin color.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank little_isabella for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 20.10.2011, 14:51
Xlator's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 72
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 24 Times in 11 Posts
Xlator has earned the respect of manyXlator has earned the respect of manyXlator has earned the respect of many
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Ha, I just put my finger on what this thread reminds me of. When I was in graduate school and looking for an apartment in the States many years ago, I saw a lot of ads specifying "Christian roommate." One day someone told me that was code for those who do not drink or, um, engage in other things that can detract from studies. Which I thought was curious, because most of the Southern Baptists I knew were avid partiers. And the few Muslims I knew would have fit the bill perfectly.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 20.10.2011, 14:57
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,631
Groaned at 31 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

forgive my ignorance, but I was under the impression that non-discrimination laws only apply to organizations (state or corporate).

As an individual I am free to refuse to befriend / deal with / lease to / lease from anyone I choose - whether or not it be based on your color or religion or attractiveness.... Is there a law that tells me I cannot??
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 20.10.2011, 15:13
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 588
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 236 Times in 146 Posts
c123 has earned some respectc123 has earned some respect
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
A Swiss person can bring a Betreibungsregisterauszug, which someone from abroad can't,
Not true, as a B-registered foreigner I went to get a Betreibungsregisterauszug from my local Kresibuero shortly after my arrival, as advised for colleagues in preparation of the 'Great Flat Finding Game'.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 20.10.2011, 15:28
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,045
Groaned at 307 Times in 263 Posts
Thanked 23,225 Times in 9,432 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is it legal to advertise a flat only for a "Swiss" national?

Quote:
View Post
forgive my ignorance, but I was under the impression that non-discrimination laws only apply to organizations (state or corporate).

As an individual I am free to refuse to deal with / lease to / lease from anyone I choose - whether or not it be based on your color or religion or attractiveness.... Is there a law that tells me I cannot??
In many countries, yes, there is. In the UK a private house rental advert saying "No Black Lesbians" would be illegal. If you didn't have that, but told someone that you're not renting to her because she's black and a lesbian, and she had proof, you could be prosecuted. The idea is that you have freedom, but you mustn't use that freedom to do evil.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it only Italian speakers who cannot say "Earl"? st2lemans Complaints corner 33 09.06.2011 14:44
Swiss Post: Is there a "book rate" to send books for cheap back home? expat_in_zug Daily life 2 04.09.2010 15:41
Is it "Natural" for Men to "Rape and Beat" Women? The_Love_Doctor International affairs/politics 51 09.08.2010 03:53
How is "doch" on it's own an appropriate answer to "how are you?" MaryThomi Language corner 12 22.03.2010 21:47
Why is it "painful" to give birth? puddycat General off-topic 205 12.03.2010 09:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0