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Old 21.10.2011, 00:12
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2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

Hi all,

I hope someone on EF is well informed on these matters.

I live in shared accommodation. Myself and my fellow occupant are both equally on the rental agreement. I would like to move out (for many good reasons).

I have formulated a termination agreement. This person refuses to sign the agreement. She has no issues with the contents of the agreement but just doesnt want to sign the agreement and said she would refuse to sign if I or anyone else found someone to take my place in the apartment.

What are my options in getting her to sign so that I can move out?

Thanks in advance

Piazza
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Old 21.10.2011, 00:28
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What an awkward biatch! Maybe just find another tenant and move them in regardless. Or maybe you can terminate the lease on your own. Or you can maybe make her life hell so that you can leave. I expect throwing a bucket of cold water on her at 4am every night would do the trick.
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Old 21.10.2011, 00:29
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Or forge her signature and get a good friend to witness it.
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Old 21.10.2011, 01:34
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

Talk to the Mieters Verband?
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Old 21.10.2011, 06:58
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

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What an awkward biatch!
Phil, pull your claws in mate.

You've only heard a nano-fraction of the story.

Piazza, talk to the landlord. I am sure you will be able to move out, and leave her there if she wants to stay.

It may not be for a while as the next official moving date isn't until 1 April, and you need to give 3 months notice. But some landlords are more flexible, if they see that you are likely to get your eyes gouged out if you stay that long.

Making both your lives miserable, is counter-productive to everyone.
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Old 21.10.2011, 07:15
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

Surely your contract defines a cancellation process, no? Typically 3 months notice - it doesn't much matter if the other person would like to stay there indefinitely, the contract is almost certainly only valid until one of the parties exits per the defined exit mechanism.
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Old 21.10.2011, 07:18
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

yeah phil is right. she is being a bitch about it. She fell behind (quite majorly) on her part of the rent for the last 3 months and we already received warnings as a result. I dont want this to affect my credit rating here. Her boyfriend has unofficially moved in making it it a little more crowded than I signed up for.

She is intentionally trying everything in her power to make this as difficult as possible for me.

I am aware of our 3 months notice period. That is why i need her to sign it by the end of this month so that it doesnt add an extra month. I raised the issue of moving out back on 03.10 so she's had plenty of time to make a decision.

Landlord says we are both on the contract so we both need to sign.
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Old 21.10.2011, 07:50
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

Boyfriend has moved in? Is he paying a third of the rent now? Why is he not taking over your part of the contract? Have you talked to him about this?

Are you being threatened with a fine or with eviction because of the nonpayments of your flatmate? If the former, then doesn't this actually make it easier for you to move out?
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Old 21.10.2011, 08:10
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

Sounds like you need legal advice. Being jointly on the lease, you are also jointly responsible for the rent, but I guess she's 'sponging' off you - is there are reason why she can't pay (lost her job?).

I wonder what the laws are when one person in a joint arrangement doesn't pay the rent - do you both pay separately to the landlord or is one side responsible for paying it into the bank ?

I think you have to separate the two issues - you can't terminate her side of the lease, you can only attempt to transfer the lease over to her, or kick her out. Terminating the actual apartment is a separate problem, but if there's a requirement to give three months notice prior to the moving date, then you are locked in to paying your half of the lease until that termination date unless you find someone to replace you.

If the boyfriend has 'unofficially' moved in, then it gets complicated. If he's living there permanently (no other residence) then he has to be registered with the landlord and the gemeinde. So you could make it really messy if the landlord is informed that he is living there.

I can think of a million ways to make life difficult for her - but even though she's behind in the rent, she has a right to stay there - so you need an 'exit' situation - she pays the rent, you find someone to replace yourself in the flat, you move out. Or boyfriend takes over your half, or she moves out because she's not paying the rent - two separate problems.

The problem is, for you to move out, you need someone to replace you on the lease. I guess that person has to be 'acceptable' by the landlord, and probably by her too (to an extent)...
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Old 21.10.2011, 09:13
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

did you sign for the bf to move in?

stop paying the rent too and tell the LL and tenant that you are moving overseas and you have no intention of paying the rent and that it will be too expensive for them to get the rent through legal means. it will soon come to a swift conclusion.
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Old 21.10.2011, 09:29
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

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The problem is, for you to move out, you need someone to replace you on the lease. I guess that person has to be 'acceptable' by the landlord, and probably by her too (to an extent)...
This. Actually only acceptable to the landlord. Essentially if things have already gotten nasty, i would tell your rental agency you are moving and ask for an amendment to the agreement that she is now sole renter. I did this in Lausanne (tangentially, you then take that paper and get your half of the deposit back etc etc). In Lausanne, this type of situation can cause problems for the person who is left if the rental agency feels they can't pay and the lease may be terminated depending on that and other variables. Also, like swisspea said, if the boyfriend is there, he needs to be registered with the gemeinde and the agency. So she has two problems, and part of me wonders if your roommate knows that her housing situation will be iffy in your absence which is why she is resisting so much.
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Old 21.10.2011, 10:12
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

Find somewhere else to live and leave asap.

Everything else will be easier to sort out once you have left and she realises hasn't got you paying for her boyfriend any more and needs to sort something out or lose the place.
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Old 21.10.2011, 10:54
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

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did you sign for the bf to move in?

stop paying the rent too and tell the LL and tenant that you are moving overseas and you have no intention of paying the rent and that it will be too expensive for them to get the rent through legal means. it will soon come to a swift conclusion.
Groaned because that's really bad advice that could wind up costing the OP a lot of money. Don't ever simply stop paying rent when you are legally obliged to pay it - right and wrong don't come into it, your name will wind up on the debtors registry, and things will be unpleasant for you for some time to come. NicoleCZ's advice seems to be the route to go.
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Old 21.10.2011, 12:31
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

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yeah phil is right. she is being a bitch about it. She fell behind (quite majorly) on her part of the rent for the last 3 months and we already received warnings as a result. I dont want this to affect my credit rating here. Her boyfriend has unofficially moved in making it it a little more crowded than I signed up for.

She is intentionally trying everything in her power to make this as difficult as possible for me.

I am aware of our 3 months notice period. That is why i need her to sign it by the end of this month so that it doesnt add an extra month. I raised the issue of moving out back on 03.10 so she's had plenty of time to make a decision.

Landlord says we are both on the contract so we both need to sign.
Will sending a registered letter out to the landlord about your intention to vacate and also to your roommate help?
At least if not anything else I am sure it will help you in case you decide to take the leagal route or contact the renter's association...
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Old 21.10.2011, 12:58
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

Was the lease amended when the boyfriend moved in? The "Personenzahl" needed to be amended to reflect the number of persons living there. Otherwise this person is there without the legal right to be.

In your shoes, I would talk to the landlord, explain that you want out, that your roommate has taken in another tenant without your consent. Give the landlord this person's complete details. Ask the landlord to take action. You want out, right? Breaking the terms of the lease is grounds for notice.

Other option is your roommate and new roommate could have a new lease drawn up in their names if they want to stay.

Hope you find a solution.
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Old 21.10.2011, 13:03
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

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What an awkward biatch! Maybe just find another tenant and move them in regardless. Or maybe you can terminate the lease on your own. Or you can maybe make her life hell so that you can leave. I expect throwing a bucket of cold water on her at 4am every night would do the trick.
There are 3 sides to every story, his, hers and the truth. What is needed here is a solution. Antagonizing her is unlikely to help matters.
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Old 21.10.2011, 14:51
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

You both signed the contract so there is no one-sided termination, as your landlord correctly informed you. Although you are supposed to inform the landlord about any “subtenants”, the landlord is allowed to use this as grounds for termination in only a few situations. Generally, the legal view in Switzerland is that subletting is allowed (case law). Legally, your relationship with your roommate is that of a simple partnership. Having an almost permanent houseguest and not paying the rent on time would be grounds for dissolving that relationship, but it would have no effect on the rental agreement. As she is refusing to agree to the termination, the only way to end both (simple partnership and rental agreement) would be to have the court declare the partnership over. The court decision would then act as her “acceptance” of the termination of the rental contract.

So, what to do? I think you know that simply moving out or not paying rent is not an option. Either way you will still be responsible for paying the rent. Finding someone to replace you is not as simple as for a “normal” rental contract because that person must also be acceptable to your flatmate (Swiss case law). If you speak German, you can go to the Rechtsauskunft for rental issues and ask them for some assistance. (Monday and Wednesday, 8:30-11 and 14-17: http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/organisati...sauskunft.html ) It is very clearly written on the Zürich info sheet about legal advice in rental matters that advice is given only in German. In addition or alternatively, you can inform your flatmate that you are prepared to go to court to resolve the problem. Either the Rental Dispute Resolution Authority (Schlichtungsbehörde) or the normal civil mediator (Friedensrichter) will deal with the issue. This might be enough to lead to a solution just between the two of you, without involving any costly court proceedings. Good luck!
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Old 21.10.2011, 15:27
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

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Although you are supposed to inform the landlord about any “subtenants”, the landlord is allowed to use this as grounds for termination in only a few situations.
Thank you. This was precisely my point.

There are two problems here, one is the breakdown of the relationship, which I am not sure is a legal one. The larger problem is the apartment and I personally think asking the landlord to give you notice given that you are in violation of the terms of the lease may be the fastest route to go.

I have to wonder about the new boyfriend....what kind of guy moves into a flat under these circumstances? Have you tried having a man to man talk with him? The obvious solution would have been for him to sign a new lease and et the OP off the hook. What guy would want his girlfriend's ex under the same roof
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Old 21.10.2011, 15:38
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

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There are two problems here, one is the breakdown of the relationship, which I am not sure is a legal one. The larger problem is the apartment and I personally think asking the landlord to give you notice given that you are in violation of the terms of the lease may be the fastest route to go.
No, I guess I wasn't clear. Having a subtenant is not in violation of the terms of the lease so unless there are other things going on, it would not be grounds for the landlord to give notice. The landlord doesn't actually have to do a thing because it is in his interest that the place is rented.

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I have to wonder about the new boyfriend....what kind of guy moves into a flat under these circumstances? Have you tried having a man to man talk with him? The obvious solution would have been for him to sign a new lease and et the OP off the hook. What guy would want his girlfriend's ex under the same roof
I wasn't under the impression that they were a couple but simply flatmates.
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Old 21.10.2011, 16:05
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Re: 2 person rental agreement and other party refuses to sign termination

yes exactly. we were never a couple. and as I have stated he has unoficially moved in. To clarify this, he is a swiss guy who owns an apartment in Lucerne and most of his belongings are there. But since his GF is in Zurich he is pretty much here all the time and sleeps here. He only goes back if he needs access to his belongings and to pick up his mail.

I would try to talk to him because he is actually a very reasonable guy, but I can never catch him on his own. With her and her short temper present the conversation would be counter-productive.
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