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Old 29.11.2011, 02:48
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URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

To cut a long story short. I have been renting this beautiful apt for a year now. Its a sublet from the original renter. About 5 months ago, the renter told me that i should start looking for another apartment as the owner doesnt want to renew the contract and wants to sell. I asked when the contract is over, he said its already finished, but technincally the owner cant throw him out without a formal notification first, which he didnt recieve until beginning of november and he started pushing hard that i leave. He told me he has problems with the owner coz the owner wanted to share with him a project but he refused bla bla bla. Also, this guy has legal cases with his own sister in court. During my whole time of stay, i suffered from two things: 1- he always warned me from telling anyone especially the concierege that i am subletting, 2- he has been asking me continously if i found a new apt. or not in the last two months. Thx god i found another apt, signed the contract 1 of dec as he has been asking me (i have his msgs saved on my mobile) and i paid dec rent for the new apt, and expected to pay the guarantee nxt week. Now, i have informed the renter about me moving a while ago and asking him to come and check everything in the apt. to give my deposit but he has been postponing everytime saying he is busy. At the end, he suggested that i only stay few days for free in his apt, where he will settle this between us and pay the deposit minus charges and etc. THE DEPOIST IS 11000 CHF, which is huge. I made some stupid mistakes wen paying the deposit since i was a newbie then: i gave him the money cash but i have receipts for it and its mentioned in our contract. Lucky me, the owner of the new apt knows him and told me that he will not do that to me, as they have a lot of friends in common, and she can damage his reputation which will affect his business. Now, i know every1 will tell me go to asloca, but i only have few days left in his apt and i dont wanna leave though i paid the other apt rent for one month until i get my deposit. He said he will finish everything and come and check the apt to give back the deposit either midweek or end of the week at the latest. Now, i dont really trust the guy and I dont know what to do to threaten him, shall i warn that i will inform the owner who probably didnt know about the sublet (he loves the apt. and he is trying to buy it), can i threaten him to take him to prison if his contract is over with the owner but my contract with him is still working? Shall i surrender the apt to the police and raise a case against him that he doesnt want to take back the apt. I just want to know how to scare the guy and make him pay my money back. He insists its in a security deposit account under his name and i shouldnt worry and it will b available at the end of the week latest. But he also has been postponing for the last 3 weeks my requests to meet to check the apt so i can get the deposit and pay it for the new apt. Any help please is wanted. Thanks
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Old 29.11.2011, 03:04
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

Contact the Asloca, Geneva ASAP:

http://www.asloca.ch/?q=node/57

ASLOCA-GENEVE
Rue du Lac 12
(Eaux-Vives)
Case postale 6150
1211 Genève 6
3e étage

Tél. : 022 716 18 00
Fax : 022 716 18 05
E-Mail: asloca.geneve@asloca.ch
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Old 29.11.2011, 03:22
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

How bout you give him a chance to meet his promise???

If nothing happens at the end of the week then you start your procedures.
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Old 29.11.2011, 10:15
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

sounds simple enough... he doesn't want you telling the owner or even the concierge about your little arrangement. You tell him to get his ass there in 90 minutes or you are calling the owner... Done.
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Old 29.11.2011, 12:35
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

Attorneys cost a shedload of money. I tell you!!!

Make sure that you have all of his details and try to work it out.

If that does not help, write a certified letter to him.

If that does not help, try the renters association as mentioned above.

The last resort should be an attorney.
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Old 29.11.2011, 12:52
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

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sounds simple enough... he doesn't want you telling the owner or even the concierge about your little arrangement. You tell him to get his ass there in 90 minutes or you are calling the owner... Done.
What he said + 1
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Old 29.11.2011, 14:45
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

Quite honestly, I think you should consider yourself fortunate to get any answers at all to your post. It was quite time consuming to read.

In future, please write words out in English in full. Please break up the text into paragraphs, even if, by 'normal language ruling', this would not be necessary. It makes it easier to read and saves time if one needs to go over a part again.

I hope you find the help you need to sort out this situation and that in future you check the possible consequences before taking any action.
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Old 29.11.2011, 14:46
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

Well, Thank everyone for the reply. I know of course of Asloca and an attourney, but asloca will take a long time to settle this, if they did in the first place and an attourney would consume the money. The main problem i face is i need the money asap to pay the new guarantee for the new apt . and he knows this, so my positino is very weak. What i am worried about is that he keeps postponing and that measn i will lose the other apartment unless i finance it through swiss caution site with an interest or so. I just dont know how to push him to give me the money smoothly, my mind is full of bad and naughty ideas like taking his furniture or if he doesnt give me back my cash, though our contract together state that i should take care of it, but after careful reading of threads and issues about the subletting, it seems a sublet contract is worthless. And even taking his furniture is not worth and it won't even amount to the level of the money, So, I am thinking either threaten him to inform the owener, though really i dont know how this will affect him since he told the contract with the owener is over, so in the end he may not care. OR, telling him that i will surrender the apartment to the police to issue a report of its state since he keeps postponing to check it out.....
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Old 29.11.2011, 14:49
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

eh?

You steal his furniture and you'll be arrested

hand the place to the police?? why the hell would they care? nothing to do with them at all.

You need to get your head together before you make matters 10x worse and get yourself into trouble
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Old 29.11.2011, 14:55
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

Allow me to say that all what i said is just for verbal use with him to scare him a bit. Under any circumstances, I dont want trouble. Just to make that clear, but I am just trying to see all the measures i can take.

11000 francs is a huge amount of money that I cant and not willing to let go at all and I never faced such a situation before, hence the panicking words that everybody are seeing now. Its just I am afraid that since that guy has legal troubles already with the owner and he has a lgal case against his sister, and he has a very good lawyer as he told me and he is rich and can afford it. This guy owns a castle!!!! So, I am not really sure if i told him i am going to Asloca or tellign the owner would make a big difference....
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Old 29.11.2011, 14:57
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

As a matter of interest, why did he require such a huge deposit?
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Old 29.11.2011, 14:59
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

You say he said the deposits in an account in his name.

It should be in your name. There may lie your answer
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Old 29.11.2011, 15:00
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

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Well, Thank everyone for the reply. I know of course of Asloca and an attourney, but asloca will take a long time to settle this, if they did in the first place and an attourney would consume the money. The main problem i face is i need the money asap to pay the new guarantee for the new apt . and he knows this, so my positino is very weak. What i am worried about is that he keeps postponing and that measn i will lose the other apartment unless i finance it through swiss caution site with an interest or so. I just dont know how to push him to give me the money smoothly, my mind is full of bad and naughty ideas like taking his furniture or if he doesnt give me back my cash, though our contract together state that i should take care of it, but after careful reading of threads and issues about the subletting, it seems a sublet contract is worthless. And even taking his furniture is not worth and it won't even amount to the level of the money, So, I am thinking either threaten him to inform the owener, though really i dont know how this will affect him since he told the contract with the owener is over, so in the end he may not care. OR, telling him that i will surrender the apartment to the police to issue a report of its state since he keeps postponing to check it out.....
Look into Swisscaution for your deposit gurantee
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Old 29.11.2011, 15:01
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

The 11000 is 3 months guarantee. I didnt know then it should be in my name or both our names, but not his names only. I thought swiss people where not cons!!!!!!!

Now, the guarantee is mentioned in the contract and i have receipts for it. That still doesnt solve my problem.... I know i made huge mistakes, but how can i fix it??
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Old 29.11.2011, 15:28
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

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I hope you find the help you need to sort out this situation and that in future you check the possible consequences before taking any action.
Fixed that for you PM the rest

All the good suggestions have been said so I won't rehash them suffice to say, good luck in the new apartment and I hope you resolve this probllem. At least as you mentioned, your new landlady knows this guy so that will defo help.
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Old 29.11.2011, 15:38
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

If by next week he still has your money, you can sue him at the 'Offices des Poursuites' http://ge.ch/opf/
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Old 29.11.2011, 15:42
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

Hope you find a way.

I know it is too late for you - but let this be a warning to others that sub-letting is no easy matter in CH - and that if you do, you have to be extremely cautious and know how to proceed. Again, and again, we read here about people who sign contracts, etc, without understanding Swiss law, etc and then end up in real trouble. Renting in CH is a different ball game to anywhere else I know off, and sub-letting is a minefield.
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Old 29.11.2011, 16:22
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

These kind of post amazes me, even as a newbie. People do all kind of funny, stupid and irresponsible mistakes and then expect that they can ask the question in English Forum and get a solution. Good job English Forum. We can screw it up really bad and count on you.

Coming back to your problem, get the contract the receipt of the cash you paid and ask your landlord that while handover you are expecting him to pay back the money cash as you handed it to him cash. If he comes out with handover issues then still ask him to pay you the cash and withheld some/pay by invoice. 11K is substantial amount of money. Tell him you are in urgent needs to money for some made up reason. Also indirectly use the threats like the social, image thing you mentioned.

I know you will do all these, but I am sure that guy who managed to get the cash out of you without a joint name, not anyone else (like verwaltung) knowing about it and is been giving you all kind of bullshit about buying apartment etc is a not as naive as you. Do the best you can in the given circumstances. Try not to screw up the relationship without making sure he s surely not giving you your money back. Good luck buddy..
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Old 29.11.2011, 16:34
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

even if it has been done legally he can hold onto your deposit for 12 months ,well I say hold on, he can block the account it should be in so you can't get at it. getting your deposit back right away is almost unheard of.
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Old 30.11.2011, 15:24
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Re: URGENT HELP, HUGE DEPOSIT PAID, renter is trying to take the deposit for sublet

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THE DEPOIST IS 11000 CHF, which is huge. I made some stupid mistakes wen paying the deposit since i was a newbie then: i gave him the money cash but i have receipts for it and its mentioned in our contract. Lucky me, the owner of the new apt knows him and told me that he will not do that to me, as they have a lot of friends in common, and she can damage his reputation which will affect his business. end of the week latest. But he also has been postponing for the last 3 weeks my requests to meet to check the apt so i can get the deposit and pay it for the new apt. Any help please is wanted. Thanks
A private lawyer may be worth it if you can afford this that is.
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