In the UK, only the very top end of the market in the millions- are advertised with 'price on application'. Here in CH, estate agents/realtors rarely give a price. I find it so annoying, because you have no idea if it is worth taking an interest or not. I asked one of them and he said 'well you know, prices are sort of flexible, so we want to leave that open'. I think it is daft- if you have a budget in mind, and lots of properties to see, then you want to aim at a price bracket, with a bottom and a top end. And of course, we all know that prices are flexible, some more than others. What do you think?

In Zurich, more and more properties are allegedly sold "at auction" in the sense that there is a "first round" after initial viewings, with the highest bidders invited to have a somewhat deeper look, and than a "second round" with "sealed bits". All in brackets, because legally, this is of course no auction at all. But giving an estimate price might cause that one bidder whose bid is way over market to bid more sensibly. Not what the seller wants...

Zurich and Geneva are different - what about in 'normal' areas?

Probably the same reason when you look at rental property pictures they are usually some obscure angle of the outside and some pictures taken with a decade old camera phone.

Because they get away with it.

I've always assumed that Preis auf Anfrage was simply code for 'if you have to ask, you can't afford it'. Which for the most part it is around here - properties listed this way have up until recently been largely luxury villas, one assumes in the multi millions.

However with the recent insanity in the Ausserschwyz market, 2 million is the going price for a run down shack - so you are starting to see some pretty rum properties listed as auf Anfrage - my guess is to encourage a bidding war.

There is another possiblity:

A while back I spoke to a couple of real estate agents about our house. We disagreed on pricing strategy; the agents were quoting ridiculous prices based on the location, my idea was to price the house very reasonably to sell quickly. As we could not come to an agreement, the agents begged me to list the house auf Anfrage - I suppose they didn't want to advertise my reasonable price, hoping to get something better (and more commission). I thought that was a supremely stoooopid strategy, and declined to use the services of those agencies.

If my sample size of two is any indicator of the marketing capabilities of the average Swiss immo agent, I'm not surprised that you are seeing more and more properties sold this way. The current market is so far removed from any fundamental value that it's anybody's guess what a property is worth these days.

If a seller has no time frame, no need to sell, and is willing to sit tight until a flush developer comes along with enough Vitamin B to ride roughshod over local zoning laws so he can tear down the historic farm house to put up 20 ugly concrete boxes (but I digress... ), many are simply trying it on to see how high prices will go.

Aye, there's the rub.

In the areas where I've been looking, there are not lots of properties to see. There have never been more than a couple, three on the market at one time - and sometimes six months or a year will go by without anything coming on the market at all. So calling for the price (and trying not to laugh - or faint - when you are told how many millions it would take for an opening bid) doesn't take but a few minutes of a buyer's time.

Although I should point out that I won't look at any property where the price is not given - on principle. At this early stage, lack of transparency on the seller's part is a very bad portent of things to come.

The market is truly insane - which is why I've decided to sit this one out for the time being.


Are there any 'normal' areas anymore?

Surely this is because the entire market is in the millions?

Well, that's your personal choice. But it's bad for your blood pressure, and perfectly avoidable.

Aargau used to be......but the trend in Zürich is starting to take hold here as well. We live very close to border of Kanton Zurich and many properties sold recently in our village were to Zurich residents who realised that less than 10 minutes away prices were better in Kanton Aargau.

Improved public transport between Kanton Aargau and Zürich is also having an effect on prices in Kanton Aargau.

Still many properties advertised without a price but that is less disturbing than ads that are deliberately misleading and there are plenty of those around.

If you have done your research properly you will have a pretty good what a property should be worth in an area. Give a price well below and see what the reaction is.

There are still however plenty of adverts around which state the asking price so if you are buying go to the agents who are disclosing the prices. Homegate usually puts the details of a range just tried a suburb along hte lake in Zurich and had a number appear ranging from 2.5M - 11M so there enough out there.

I am sure that there agents who try to mislead just like in UK as they are paid to get the best price and trying to increase there own commission. There is every chance that unless you look like a serious bidder and not someone trying to waste their time then they are choosing to deal only with those who front up with actual capacity to buy. If you really want a place I am sure you know how to find out the price

I would not be put off at all by this, it takes 30 seconds to send an email and ask for some sales documentation and price range, make the agent earn their commission anyway. Privacy about these things is more important (neighbours gossip) here and to be truthful a lot of prices indicated are far from the final sale price.

Not round here it isn't


What I found a little strange is that on the odd occasion a property price would be "sur demande" on one immo website, yet exactly the same property would have the price advertised on another.

we didn't bother with any house that didn't include the price, you can filter them out in homegate anyway. either you want to sell it or you don't, if you do then included the price ffs

I've seen plenty of ads for overpriced flats which didn't get sold over weeks (if not months) switching to "prix sur demande", which in this case implies "willing to negotiate the price". BUT you can go to comparis.ch which records also price evolution. Example: http://www.comparis.ch/immobilien/in...spx?id=4962982

I have seen houses on the market for a long time that were initially advertised with a price, then it was removed. That is always a very good sign. If there is no price I am not put off, I just ask for the documentation. Most of the time the agents ignore you after sending the docs. I can probably count on one hand the number of agents who have actually ever followed up with a phone call after sending documentation.

One agent recently told me he won't send any documentation, he will only show a house personally. I said that I prefer a floor plan in advance, that I can tell from a floor plan if a house will work for us or not (we have some very specific needs)and I don't want to waste my time, or anyone else's. It turns out his client is running her own ad on the internet so I found the floorplan on my own. If he was such a great agent she wouldn't need to advertise.

It is possible to look up how long a house has been on the market, it is also possible to see price changes unless an entire new ad was placed. There are few secrets anymore.

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We didn't either. Why is it up to me to put in all that work when really it's YOUR job to sell it.

But of course I do understand it depends on the property. Some new properties are listed without price because there are various units being sold. Other because they are in the millions.

Honestly if you have a regular flat/house I see no reason not to list the price.

There are still some 'normal' areas - where you can get size, character, quality and land for a lot less than 1 mio- I'm glad to say.

We wouldn't be retired here from the UK otherwise

Let me guess where?

Yep (message too short)

Plus.. don't forget.. (assuming you need a mortgage)... the bank are still going to do a valuation... even if, as in my case, it is done in 5 minutes with a computer (basic description, age, size, location etc)

If the bank only value the place at 80% of the asking price.. you're either going to have to knock them down or find an even bigger deposit

It is a rip-off. Nothing more nothing less.

Stay away from any "closed envelope" bidding process, or play hardball. Give what you think it is worth and tell them to stick any suggestion to rebid where the sun doesn't shine or offer a lower amount.

I've not been stung or involved in any such process, but closed bidding is so open to absolute and utter abuse that I'd never be involved voluntarily.