Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 14.11.2007, 14:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,531
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
what is the difference? I assume that the fire alarm detects smoke and where there is smoke there is fire...
Fire alarms are sold as an integrated alert system giving the location of the individual detector that triggered, automatic fire brigade alert, independent electric source and annual certification.

All that makes it not exactly cheap.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Shorrick Mk2 for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 14.11.2007, 14:17
sonnyk's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kanton Zug-Baar
Posts: 147
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 56 Times in 34 Posts
sonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeable
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Don`t be so sure about that...they have a tendency to make an annoying noise when they do not have enough battery power.

Plus, I keep a whole box of batteries around, cuz, well ya never know...

Quote:
View Post
Well, you probably can buy a smoke alarm for 9 CHF, and then i'd bet the five francs in twenty centime coins lying on my table that you won't notice when the batteries need be changed at least 50% of the time.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 14.11.2007, 14:23
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Perthia
Posts: 1,237
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 905 Times in 446 Posts
Yokine has a reputation beyond reputeYokine has a reputation beyond reputeYokine has a reputation beyond reputeYokine has a reputation beyond reputeYokine has a reputation beyond reputeYokine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
Well, you probably can buy a smoke alarm for 9 CHF, and then i'd bet the five francs in twenty centime coins lying on my table that you won't notice when the batteries need be changed at least 50% of the time.
I'd take that bet with my budget battery smoke alarm. When the battery starts to get low, it emits a loud high pitch squeak every fifteen minutes or so. If it starts at night, it wakes you up, but you dont quite know what did it & fall back to sleep. Repeat cycle until insommnia kicks in and you realise what's waking you up, tear it off the ceiling and smash it to pieces.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Yokine for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 14.11.2007, 14:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
they have a tendency to make an annoying noise when they do not have enough battery power.
On mine, the LED blinks when the battery is low.

Most of the buildings here are concrete and steel. Most of the buildings in the 'states, especially in the earthquake zones, are wood frame. Maybe swiss concrete does a good job of containing flames.

Apparently, insurance companies are not compelling landlords to install smoke fire safety. Also, unlike in the 'states, this society frowns on litigations. Maybe they need something tragic to grab the headlines so they can draft legislation.

But if you aren't comfortable waiting for the legislators, I suggest D.I.Y. Get a 1st Alert smoke detector with a test button and a battery detector. I did.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 14.11.2007, 14:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,531
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
. Maybe they need something tragic to grab the headlines so they can draft legislation.
Indeed. Looks like we've been waiting for quite a long time already. Wonder why.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 14.11.2007, 14:33
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: geneve
Posts: 92
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
neerajana has no particular reputation at present
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

And here I was going around looking for them all the time and marvelling at the fact that they were so well hidden. Infact I was worried that the sparklers we lit on Diwali (although on the open terrace) would set off these hidden fire alarms and the police would come and fine us.

Simply can't believe that a first world country and one that is so particular about everything is so lax on this issuw!!!! Made me shake my head.

SonnyK, Thanks for enlightening me about the caves, now I know why our caves have such thick doors( air tight and 12" or more thick).I am scared to go there alone for the fear of being locked and dying!! Didn't know they were shelters. I was scratching my head and wondering as to who stores such valuable goods down there that they need security almost akin to money vaults of banks, or dungeons of the old days. Silly ol' me


Quote:
View Post
What kills me, is that our building has a whole cellar full of nuclear fall-out shelters with a 12 inch (or thicker?) doors. Such irony!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 14.11.2007, 15:04
sonnyk's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kanton Zug-Baar
Posts: 147
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 56 Times in 34 Posts
sonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeable
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

I think the article that is referenced above is pretty tragic. Twenty people were injured! If they would have had smoke/fire alarms they could have exited the building within minutes of the fire starting.

The quality of most buildings and structures in CH is excellent, but still not fire-proof. Which to me means that a building may not go up in flames like a book of matches, but it is still going to burn. Obviously, the fire referenced in the apartment in Bern did not stay contained in the one apartment. And the smoke damage would not be inconsequential in a fire like this.

Shorrick Mk2, you come across like you are really opposed to fire/smoke alarms being required. What on earth would be the logic for that? Sorry in advance if I am misinterpreting your remarks...


Quote:
View Post
Indeed. Looks like we've been waiting for quite a long time already. Wonder why.
__________________
The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority. Ralph Sockman
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 14.11.2007, 15:13
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,111
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,049 Times in 1,190 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
I was really shocked to learn that we have no fire alarm in the entire building. Is that the norm here? The owner takes great care of the building, but I am really surprised to learn that such a simple safety precaution does not exist.
There's no requirement for fire alarms in rental buildings. Putting in a fire alarm (which is going to cost you 5 Fr. per unit + 20 minutes of work for putting it up) in your apartment is your own responsibility - as is insurance against damage caused by fire, flooding etc inside your apartment.

Switzerland has had a very long tradition of personal responsibility - something that goes with personal freedom according to Swiss customs. People are required to think in this country. Unfortunately, not all do. But if you believe there should be fire alarms in every apartment in your building, go ahead and collect signatures - the landlord will more than likely put them in if he's asked to do so.

dawiz
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 14.11.2007, 15:22
dakman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC (heart is split between Switzerland and the Big Apple)
Posts: 1,877
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 543 Posts
dakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
But if you believe there should be fire alarms in every apartment in your building, go ahead and collect signatures - the landlord will more than likely put them in if he's asked to do so.

dawiz
off topic, i know but being a Swiss landlord is a dream compared to the US. in the US, the landlord is responsibility for everything and the tenants are responsible for nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 14.11.2007, 15:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,531
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post

Shorrick Mk2, you come across like you are really opposed to fire/smoke alarms being required. What on earth would be the logic for that? Sorry in advance if I am misinterpreting your remarks...

I am very much in favour of the personal responsibility that has already been quoted previously.

If someone wants a smoke alarm, by all means they should get it. But from the limited prevalence of such devices through Switzerland, it's either people are quite happy roasting themselves to a crisp on a regular basis or house fires aren't frequent enough to make them a perceived actionable threat.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 14.11.2007, 15:31
sonnyk's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kanton Zug-Baar
Posts: 147
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 56 Times in 34 Posts
sonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeable
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

(Also off topic)...Since the 1960`s CH has required
that either the building or the community has to have enough shelter space in case of an emergency. I could not find anything refuting that, which makes me think it is still the case. Here is an interesting article. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/6347519.stm

[quoteSimply can't believe that a first world country and one that is so particular about everything is so lax on this issuw!!!!
SonnyK, Thanks for enlightening me about the caves, now I know why our caves have such thick doors( air tight and 12" or more thick).I am scared to go there alone for the fear of being locked and dying!! Didn't know they were shelters. I was scratching my head and wondering as to who stores such valuable goods down there that they need security almost akin to money vaults of banks, or dungeons of the old days. Silly ol' me[/quote]
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 14.11.2007, 15:34
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
off topic, i know but being a Swiss landlord is a dream compared to the US. in the US, the landlord is responsibility for everything and the tenants are responsible for nothing.
Not so black and white. It's based on contractual obligations. Also a different skew on the Responsibility/Freedom balance.

But clearly, there is a different "social contract" between landlords and tenants. Whereas here, there is tradition; there, there is very little.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 14.11.2007, 15:38
dakman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC (heart is split between Switzerland and the Big Apple)
Posts: 1,877
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 543 Posts
dakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
Not so black and white. It's based on contractual obligations. Also a different skew on the Responsibility/Freedom balance.

But clearly, there is a different "social contract" between landlords and tenants. Whereas here, there is tradition; there, there is very little.
I believe it is just based on different traditions. I think tradition is an overused term in Switzerland. Tradition is the excuse for doing or not doing certain things.

don't get me wrong, I prefer the personal responsibility skewness as it is here.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 14.11.2007, 15:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
I believe it is just based on different traditions. I think tradition is an overused term in Switzerland.
Or more like different histories. There have been abuses in the 'states that have caused some legislation to be passed. We coined the term "slum lord" there.

A fire alarm is required for insurance purposes and reducing liability. Not having one can be punishable by law.

But nowadays, landlords install over-the-top amenities just to raise their marketability. Self-cleaning toilets, Wi-Fi, internet based security systems. With every amenity, they can justify charging more rent. Free Market economy, isn't it?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 14.11.2007, 15:45
JVC
 
Posts: n/a
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
I'd take that bet with my budget battery smoke alarm. When the battery starts to get low, it emits a loud high pitch squeak every fifteen minutes or so. If it starts at night, it wakes you up, but you dont quite know what did it & fall back to sleep. Repeat cycle until insommnia kicks in and you realise what's waking you up, tear it off the ceiling and smash it to pieces.
It will start at night, because the battery is at it's weakest when it's cold.

You then can't find the source of the sound, because the thing is on an exceptionally high ceiling, and you've never noticed it before. The sequence goes like this:
  • Proceed to dismantle burglar alarm
  • Find that that didn't solve it
  • Suddenly the wretched smoke alarm lets a ping off above you. You now know where it is, but there's no way to reach it
  • Discover that you can't put the burglar alarm together again
  • Turn heating on full blast and close any open windows
  • Go back to bed
  • Congratulate yourself on ability to sleep
  • Call landlord when you finally get up
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 14.11.2007, 16:05
sonnyk's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kanton Zug-Baar
Posts: 147
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 56 Times in 34 Posts
sonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeable
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Yeah, I see your point. EXCEPT that the whole concept of personal responsibilty does not hold much water if my neighbor is a flaming idiot (no pun intended) and leaves his stove burning all night and burns my apartment to a crisp.

On a side note (I must have a little too much time on my hands today) here is a link for the World Fire Statistic Bulletin (bet you did not know or care that they existed!) http://www.genevaassociation.org/WFSC.htm
I agree that they are not a perceivable threat.

In 2004, 40 people died in Switzerland from fires and CH is was the second lowest in deaths per 100,000 at 0.51.

Quote:
View Post
I am very much in favour of the personal responsibility that has already been quoted previously.

If someone wants a smoke alarm, by all means they should get it. But from the limited prevalence of such devices through Switzerland, it's either people are quite happy roasting themselves to a crisp on a regular basis or house fires aren't frequent enough to make them a perceived actionable threat.
__________________
The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority. Ralph Sockman
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 14.11.2007, 16:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,531
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, I see your point. EXCEPT that the whole concept of personal responsibilty does not hold much water if my neighbor is a flaming idiot (no pun intended) and leaves his stove burning all night and burns my apartment to a crisp.
But since the number of fires is so small you can draw a reasonable conclusion that the risk of living next to a flaming idiot is rather minuscule...
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 14.11.2007, 16:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

Quote:
View Post
... you can draw a reasonable conclusion that the risk of living next to a flaming idiot is rather minuscule...
Apart from metrosexuals with low IQs.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 14.11.2007, 21:00
muze7's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Uk now after Neuchatel
Posts: 1,225
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 148 Times in 94 Posts
muze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeable
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

You can also get carbon monoxide alarms. Not sure how many people die of this poisoning in CH each year but in my home country it happens way too often...

If you install smoke alarms, it is a good idea to have one in the hallway and the bedroom. The one in the hallway is also to detect smoke from the kitchen; you shouldn't put it in the kitchen directly as it will go off too often! Mine also beeps when the battery gets to be nearly empty.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 14.11.2007, 21:10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 50
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
misterazz is considered a nuisancemisterazz is considered a nuisancemisterazz is considered a nuisance
Re: No fire alarms? Alarming!

In my old apartment there were no fire extinguisher...and when I had contacted my regie they reply that I'm living at the 1st floor so if anything happens the fireman could access to this level....bizarre
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fire alarms, safety




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can I fire if my employer changed? arielt111 Employment 18 28.09.2007 12:24
Greece on fire keep walking International affairs/politics 3 26.08.2007 19:58
BP Chief under Fire Creative_Path General off-topic 8 02.05.2007 10:36
An alarming story ;-) [Swiss tourists lost in Australia] litespeed Jokes/funnies 6 27.02.2007 10:04


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0