You got the advice you wanted. If you dont like it p*** off

So don't take the apartment. What else do you want us to say?

if it is cheap, i'd say take the flat. paying low rent for a year is still a saving.

I just talk to the regie. They said the owner wants to have a one year fixed term contract, but it can be renewed after one year if everything is OK(I pay rent, no complaints from neighbors). I think it should be interpreted as a open ended contract. am I right?

by law, a fixed term contract is the one that should not be renewed. But the regie told me clearly that it can be renewed after one year. I think they just want to deprive me of my tenants rights under a indefinite contract. but if they want to increase their rent at renewal, can I challenge them in court and court will consider this as an indefinite contract?

I fixed term contract may be replaced by another, just the same with work!
It's NOT an indefinate contract, what is so hard to understand? The court will look at the contract you signed.....

I think the only difference between the fixed term and indefinite is if it is renewable. If it is renewable, it is indefinite even if in the contract, it says fixed term.

Swiss law is somewhat different to what your used to, your expected to understand what your signing, what is written is what it is.

A new contract with rent 1chf higher is not a 'renewal' it's a new contract.

Most contracts automatically renew on identical terms unless 3 months notice is given. That is not the case with a fixed contract.

yes. The regie told me that it can be renewed. even if this is not written on the contract, it should be part of the contract, right? verbal agreement is still part of the contract.

If it's not in a written contract, it's not a contractual term.
If you only had a verbal agreement you might have a point, good luck enforcing it however.

Can you actually read & understand what is written on the contract ? If you sign it your deemed to understand & agree the terms.

Swiss law is different to what your used to, just read what is written & assume nothing. Pretty sure you will not get this apartment as other people will happily take it over, especially if it's cheap.

If it's not written, it's your word against their's. Many contracts also have a clause that states that any side agreements, etc must be in writing. So, do yourself a favour and take the contract at face value. If it is fixed one year, then accept the fact that in the worst case you may be out on your ear after that year is up and nothing you will say about who said what will change that. Best case your contract will be renewed with the same t&c's.

This is what we signed up for also. Based on anecdotal evidence (i.e. in my office) this seems to be the norm for Geneva.

We would never sign a fixed term, since our circumstances could change for many reasons beyond our control.

I know the norm should be automatic renewal. but the regie and landlord has so much negotiating power, so either you take it or leave it. so far i have only got this one. not too many options.

Art. 255

C. Duration
1 Leases may be concluded for a limited or indefinite duration.
2 Where the intention is that they should end without notice on expiry of the agreed duration, they have a limited duration.
3 Other leases are deemed to be of indefinite duration.

This is what the law says. I noticed that it mentions INTENTION. even if in the contract, it is a fixed term. as long as I have evidence to prove that from the beginning, the regie or landlord is willing to renew it, it should be considered an indefinite contract. am I right?

No. The contract its for one year. Therefore it is fixed duration ie fixed contract. Wether there is an intention or not to renew it thats irrelevant.

The German version mentions nothing about Intention. It says where the rental agreement will end without notice on the expiry of the agreed duration.

"Befristet ist das Mietverhältnis, wenn es ohne Kündigung mit Ablauf der vereinbarten Dauer endigen soll."

The French say nothing about intention either:

"Il est de durée déterminée lorsqu’il doit prendre fin, sans congé, à l’expiration de la durée convenue."

If you are basing your arguments on a crappy translation then you will end up here:




@mods: How long do I have to have been here before I can give unlimited bad rep to someone????

No, you are wrong.

Dear Moderator, please move this thread to this one,

Collective thread for whiners et al.

Dear Wise Ben, (?) please don't sign this contract. Find another one.

WiseBen - what kind of advice would you like? You seem quite angry and I'm here to help and sooth your furrowed brow.

What would help you feel better?

Carry on thinking,. you desperately need the practice