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  #21  
Old 18.08.2012, 20:19
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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What i dont understand is people that sign stuff and then complain about it. It was ok when you signed. Now suddenly you changed your mind?
What you signed doesn't matter when the contractual clauses are against the law!

Tenancy contracts are quite strictly regulated by law because the landlord is always in a stronger position than the tenant so strict regulations are necessary to protect tenants from landlord abuse (just like in this case).
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Old 18.08.2012, 20:21
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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What you signed doesn't matter when the contractual clauses are against the law!

Tenancy contracts are quite strictly regulated by law because the landlord is always in a stronger position than the tenant so strict regulations are necessary to protect tenants from landlord abuse (like in this case).
So basically you say that having a clause requiring the tenant to get a working order confirmation for the appliances in the flat is illegal?
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  #23  
Old 18.08.2012, 20:24
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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So basically you say that having a clause requiring the tenant to get a working order confirmation for the appliances in the flat is illegal?
That's what the article in the Beobachter clearly says. I'm not sure if this is a "lost in translation" issue or what, but I don't understand why you are still so doubtful.
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  #24  
Old 18.08.2012, 20:26
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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So basically you say that having a clause requiring the tenant to get a working order confirmation for the appliances in the flat is illegal?
Yes, ja and oui.
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Old 18.08.2012, 20:28
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

Just double checking. I dont speak German at all and for some reason i dont thing google translate is up to the job. Does the article quote any particular law about something as this case?
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Old 18.08.2012, 21:16
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

Every Kanton has a model contract for the hire of flats.
Tenancy contracts are quite strictly regulated by the law of each Kanton.

The appliance check by the "regie" is the normal way and all services to appliances go full to the cost of the "regie" That is in the law regulation.

So how can a "regie" ask a tenent to make this for him?


Salut Zämma
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Old 18.08.2012, 21:38
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

Thanks Big M- very interesting. It seemed to me that once you signed a contract with such stipulations, then it would be binding. Could the Regie say something like, someone does not have to accept this at the beginning of a contract as per the law- but once accepted and signed, it 'should' be binding?
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Old 18.08.2012, 21:42
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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TIt seemed to me that once you signed a contract with such stipulations, then it would be binding. Could the Regie say something like, someone does not have to accept this at the beginning of a contract as per the law- but once accepted and signed, it 'should' be binding?
No. In Switzerland, you cannot contract out of the law.

The law has a higher standing than your contract

Eg: you can sign a contract with someone to break the law. But that doesn't make the contract legally binding. The law cannot be broken or "got around" by signing a contract.
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  #29  
Old 18.08.2012, 21:43
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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Thanks Big M- very interesting. It seemed to me that once you signed a contract with such stipulations, then it would be binding. Could the Regie say something like, someone does not have to accept this at the beginning of a contract as per the law- but once accepted and signed, it 'should' be binding?
It's no big surpeise foreigners have a problem renting here, the Swiss read the contract, accept the terms & stay for years. Why would any sensible landlord bother with foreigners? They they want to get out what they agreed in the first place.
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  #30  
Old 18.08.2012, 23:08
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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The article quoted by Big Mara clearly talks about an end of tenancy check so this is the same thing in this context!
I'm not getting into an argument with you over semantics. We can go round and round in circles. Some landlords want a full blown service and that is unreasonable and according to the article. Most landlords want a "funktionskontrolle" and it is not the same as service.

As long as we disagree on that point, which we clearly do, there is no point discussing it further.

As to my second point, everyone has to make their own decisions. My time is too valuable to me to piss it away arguing over something like that. The time taken writing letters and talking to the Mieterverband and going to mediation. I don't know about you, but I just have better things to do....

Last edited by Snoopy; 18.08.2012 at 23:42.
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  #31  
Old 19.08.2012, 02:21
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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Thanks Big M- very interesting. It seemed to me that once you signed a contract with such stipulations, then it would be binding. Could the Regie say something like, someone does not have to accept this at the beginning of a contract as per the law- but once accepted and signed, it 'should' be binding?
Correct, that is how it works. It is usually binding once signed.
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  #32  
Old 19.08.2012, 02:24
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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I'm not getting into an argument with you over semantics. We can go round and round in circles. Some landlords want a full blown service and that is unreasonable and according to the article. Most landlords want a "funktionskontrolle" and it is not the same as service.

As long as we disagree on that point, which we clearly do, there is no point discussing it further.

As to my second point, everyone has to make their own decisions. My time is too valuable to me to piss it away arguing over something like that. The time taken writing letters and talking to the Mieterverband and going to mediation. I don't know about you, but I just have better things to do....
That is a personal decision and agreed it is a time issue. It is up to the tenant whether he want to pursue mediation or let it go. It usually does not take too long to set up mediation. Cut out 2 hrs watching a football game and you have the time to set it up.
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  #33  
Old 19.08.2012, 09:25
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

What bothers me is that after the hand over, the landlord / new tenant have at least 10 days to report any hidden defects. So if you move out and a week later the new tenant finds the dishwasher is partly defective, then the old tenant is responsible for any repairs to the dishwasher, unless the total cost is above CHF 150,-- (And then the landlord is responsible). This is very likely when Swiss labour rates are so high.

So why should there be a need for the functional test, as the landlord is responsible for any single repair above a cost of CHF 150,-- ?
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  #34  
Old 19.08.2012, 11:56
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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No wonder the landlords are becoming more and more unreasonable when they get away with it so easily...
This sort of attitude, and the guy in another thread who think not paying the last months rent to get his deposit back IS why landlords get shirty with expats, making us jump through hoops to get a place, and generally turn into Attillla the Hun when we go to move. People want the benefit of everything being perfect when they move in, and happily sign the contract to say it will be good when they leave. But, when they leave want to body swerve the responsibility they signed up to that makes it the same for the next tenant.

Calc build up will dramatically shorten the life of an appliance, and unless the machine is opened up impossible to tell if it's happening. We were told about the inpection when we left, and advised to use anti calc tabs to minimise/eleminate the build up, failing to do so would mean we were negligent and therefore liable. Tabs cost less than a chuff a wash, and it cost between CHF 70 and 100 to get the appliance check done, so hardly a squeeze on a nice fat expat salary cheque
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  #35  
Old 19.08.2012, 15:22
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

I had this, I didn't do it when I moved out, and the new owner (my landlord sold) just sent me the bill.
I tried to tell him I was an electrical engineer and his appliances were fine, but no, they like to giveCHF150 away for no benefit.
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  #36  
Old 19.08.2012, 16:00
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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What you need to arrange is a common clause in rental contracts. If the machines are all from the same manufacturer, it will be less expensive than if you have to call different manufacturers. There are companies like Service 7000 which service all makes and models. You might want to check who installed the machines, they might also be able to do a check for you.
Ask the landlady for the details.

The question I have for you is was this done when you moved in? If you look at your inspection report, does it say they were serviced? You should not have to do what the previous tenant got away with not doing but this could cause problems later. When you have had it done the new tenant cannot not claim the machines are not working, which would be a hidden defect, and this would end up being your problem.

Also, when you call for the service, you will be asked the make and model number, and also the FN number or SN number. These are all found on the label. Make sure they leave you with the report that all was okay.

If they find something wrong, find out the cost, if it exceeds your portion of repairs as per your contract, you then need to talk to the landlady about paying.

If the serviceman says you mistreated the dishwasher, for example, and it now needs repair and it is truly your fault, you may also try and claim this on your household insurance. You will need the right paperwork under which to make this claim. Keep in mind your deductible to see if it is really worth making a claim.
the place was new when I moved in so just had the standard Uebergabe bit done. Previous flat I rented was also new via same landlord and did not have this. Flat we left was left in top-notch condition but the true owner of the current flat was different. Wincasa manages it for them.

Good tip on the insurance bit. Have put in a call to the Hauswart for recommendations. I suspect there will be a few issues when we do the final inspection as there are a few scratches on the floor which they might want to have fixed.
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Old 19.08.2012, 16:03
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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This is in the Mietvertrag, but its not an obligation. If you do it, you have the right to claim the costs back from your "regie"

If you understand a little german here is a good link about all this.
http://www.beobachter.ch/wohnen/umzu...mieter-zahlen/

Here is a PDF about what to clean and the giving back of a rented flat.
http://www.beobachter.ch/fileadmin/d...ungsabgabe.pdf
Sorry its only in german.


Here is the what the Swiss Beobachter newspaper says to your question.

Nicht selten wird dabei jedoch versucht, dem Mieter Kosten aufzubürden, für die er gar nicht aufkommen muss. Der Trick heisst Reinigungs- und Instandstellungsliste. Darin beschreiben Vermieter, welche Arbeiten der Mieter vor der Wohnungsabgabe vorzunehmen hat. Doch diese Listen enthalten oft unzulässige Anweisungen. So muss der Mieter zum Beispiel keinen Service an einem Geschirrspüler machen, auch wenn der Vermieter das verlangt.

Salut Zämma
hmm..interesting...good article..thanks...yes I'm good on German...
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  #38  
Old 19.08.2012, 16:06
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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I had this, I didn't do it when I moved out, and the new owner (my landlord sold) just sent me the bill.
I hope you didn't pay it, you certainly were under no obligation to do so as you didn't even have a contractual relationship with the new owner (never mind the fact that you had no obligation to do the check anyway regardless of what your contract said).
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Old 19.08.2012, 16:11
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

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I suspect there will be a few issues when we do the final inspection as there are a few scratches on the floor which they might want to have fixed.
Are you aware that the floor surface coating is a write-off after 10 years (on a wooden floor, others have different write-off periods, see link below), i.e. if the floor coating is 10 years or older you don't have to pay anything at all for scratches to it. Also even if it's less than 10 years old you only pay a percentage of the costs based on it's age, not the total cost.

This is regulated by law with specific write-off periods for every item and explained for example here:
http://www.schweizerischer-mietersch...cation/f24.cfm
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Old 21.08.2012, 00:54
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Re: Landlord requiring appliance check at the end of lease

We had to provide a report from a dishwasher technician, at our cost
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