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  #81  
Old 31.08.2012, 23:57
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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I am sorry, but Hong Kong has the most beautiful skyline in the world.
Then why you don't go to Hong Kong?

It already exists, it has wonderful skyline, what else do you want?

Do you want to change switzerland to look like that?
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  #82  
Old 01.09.2012, 00:53
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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Well, then you were lucky at home because I doubt most people in China live in housing that is up to the standard compared to most people in Switzerland.
China? Try France!
My brother + GF moved to Lyon, into a renovated old building.
- no kitchen (had to buy one)
- no 380V connection for the stove - will have to have one installed (on their own dime)
- no washing machine in the building (they have to buy one and have to have it installed on their own dime, of course)

Mon dieu - how can France be in the EU, actually?
;-))
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  #83  
Old 01.09.2012, 01:28
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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- no 380V connection for the stove
Well, unless things have changed (though it was 37 years ago that I lived there for a year), France doesn't have 3p distribution!

Tom
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  #84  
Old 01.09.2012, 01:32
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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I came from a developing country. If I just compare my housing condition, Switzerland is horrible
So move back if it's really that horrible.

Tom
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  #85  
Old 01.09.2012, 01:36
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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Maybe you are enjoying your high salary and your high standard Swiss living standard. But please at least show some sympathy for people who have difficulty finding affordable housing here. PLEASE
As my kid can afford it on a waitress salary, I surely fail to see your problem!

(unless, of course, you are severely underpaid and are making less than CHF 120k/year)

Tom
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  #86  
Old 01.09.2012, 01:44
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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Next time I see a homeless person in NYC I'll tell them from you that they aren't trying hard enough.
Don`t forget to bring wine in a brown papier bag
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  #87  
Old 01.09.2012, 01:47
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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Well, unless things have changed (though it was 37 years ago that I lived there for a year), France doesn't have 3p distribution!

Tom
The Frensh are well known for pulling there wire
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  #88  
Old 01.09.2012, 01:55
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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I prefer HONG KONG. and the apartments in these skycrapers there are more expensive than in Zurich
sorry, but you need to get your eyes checked.
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  #89  
Old 01.09.2012, 01:56
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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Because they look like shite?
This should have been the end of the thread.
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  #90  
Old 01.09.2012, 01:59
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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Switzerland is very densely populated and the population keeps growing. So why the swiss is so reluctant to build high rise apartments? I understand they want to preserve the historic look of old cities, but in outskirts where many new apartment blocks are build, why do not build 30 story plus high rise buildings?
If you want to build something really high, you have to overcome a heavy opposition. And anything of even minor importance can be made into a topic for a popular vote, be it on municipal or Cantonal or Federal level.

In the 1960ies, the Lochergut



(made my apprenticeship in the 1st floor of that building 1969/70/71) was THE "skyscraper" in town. Now, the Prime Tower is not only the highest building in Zürich but the highest in all Switzerland. Interestingly, a comparable project was dropped. And now, the future in "Züri-West" looks as shown here


Interesting is that Geneva is so reluctant. I was told back in 1978 that the average height of houses inside the political city of Geneva was some two storeys higher than in the political city of Zürich, and that the population density in Geneva-City was some 30% higher than in Zürich-City.

You mention cities like New York. Look at pictures of NYC in the 50ies when the Empire State and the Chrysler Buildings were the highest skyscrapers in the world. The Empire State throughout my schooltime was THE highest building in the world. You may have seen the Woolworth Bulding in NY. "not very remarkable" may be your thought. Wrong. When Mr Woolworth proposed to build it in Philadelphia (the then still largest city of the USA) the PHL chaps refused permission, and so, enraged Mr Woolworth went to NY and got his permission almost immediately, and then moved his whole corporate empire to Hudson and East River. And what is the lesson ? The lesson is that things do not develop out of a sudden. You may look at London. The "highrise areas" are rather limited to areas like the "City" and the "Docklands" . In Paris, the skyscrapers are limited to areas like La Défense and Montparnasse but the height of buidling in Paris just as in London is rather limited. Why is the dropping of their project a bit symptomatic for Basel ? Because Basel which back in 1848 was by far the largest city of Switzerland (larger than Zürich and Geneva combined ! ) gradually lost its rank, not least due to
- complacency
- snobbery
- arrogance
- lack of realism
but yes, this to some extent, hopefully not as drastic as in the case of Basel, IS a problem for the nation. NOT the lack of skyscrapers, but possibly a general stance against such things.

In Zürich-Oerlikon, the Swissôtel Hotel was a sensation when it was new


as was the Marriott Hotel



while this is one of three similar buildings in Zürich-Leimbach



and the Hochhaus zur Schanze in the 60ies paved the way



while the new Löwenbräu Building may be modest by international standars but looks remarkable in Zürich



Back to NY. Visit the Rockefeller Center and check how carefully the architects created a "space" right accross from the splendid St. Patricks Cathedral
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  #91  
Old 01.09.2012, 02:32
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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I've often wondered if all those people with "million dollar views" disliked skyscrapers supposedly because they "ruin the view" or if it was because it enabled more people to enjoy that view and thus ruin their exclusivity. I don't buy the "I like a view of Nature".

Also, if skyscrapers were led to their logical conclusion, they'd replace all existing buildings in a certain perimeter whilst incorporating horizontal access between floors, under and over ground, from top to bottom (see Montreal's underground city). It'd be a huge saving in land usage for constricted towns...
You don't buy that I have an opinion? I do like my open views. But, in relation to this discussion, I don't care for skyscraper filled skylines. It's not purely based on exclusivity, it's based on what happens when you pack more people into a single area.

And the fact that Zurich is regarded as big village, rather then a small city is a selling point for me to continue to live around it. I've been to Geneva and I think it is beautiful there, Paris as well. I had the choice to live outside of NYC and Chicago, and I chose not to. So, you don't have to believe that I have an opinion. But it's mine to believe in.
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Old 01.09.2012, 09:40
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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I've often wondered if all those people with "million dollar views" disliked skyscrapers supposedly because they "ruin the view" or if it was because it enabled more people to enjoy that view and thus ruin their exclusivity. I don't buy the "I like a view of Nature".

Also, if skyscrapers were led to their logical conclusion, they'd replace all existing buildings in a certain perimeter whilst incorporating horizontal access between floors, under and over ground, from top to bottom (see Montreal's underground city). It'd be a huge saving in land usage for constricted towns...
Why do I have the city-scape scenes from The Fifth Element running around in my head when I read this post?

Noth, I think you have described my (and probably many others') "hell on earth". I, for one, need at least a minimal view of nature in my living environment.
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  #93  
Old 01.09.2012, 10:07
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

Just as a point of reference, the city of Paris has a density of 22,000 per sq km (and this does not include the high rises and such in la Defense). Manhattan is 26,000/sq km. My point is that you don't need high-rises to achieve very high density - I think no building Paris (save a handful of very famous ones that no one lives in, save the odd hunchback) are over six stories, and yet they achieve a density that is Manhattan-like.
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  #94  
Old 01.09.2012, 10:23
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

In my opinion skyscrapers are glass-faced, souless, steel rabbit hutches. Our other love - concrete - doesn't help to create a feeling of well-being either.

At one time a walk from Tiefenbrunnen along the lake towards Zuri offered a view of a real sky-line, a heart-warming collection of warm-roofed medium-sized buildings huddling between church spires. Now the whole view has been spoilt by an assembly of thick and thin penises poking into the air.
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  #95  
Old 01.09.2012, 11:39
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

I think there will never be a skyscraper skyline in Switzerland. Not because it is ugly (in my opinion, it can be beautiful) but because skyscrapers are an expression of a certain culture, which is alien to Switzerland. I’ve seen somewhere the expression ‘vertical hubris’ used about skyscrapers; they are built to assert dominance and their association with the penis is not accidental.
I just thing that the unique Swiss spirit of place is incongruent with skyscrapers.
An interesting article from Harvard Magazine:
http://harvardmagazine.com/2010/05/skyscraper-as-symbol
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Old 01.09.2012, 11:50
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

I think it is interesting that i couldnt find (maybe i wasnt attentive enought) any reference to the floor area per person. It is easy to take up a card like Hong Kong and say lets build skyscrapers, but forgetting that these are extremely dense areas.. So I tried to find fast some statistics:

Living space per person Switzerland 44sqm (2000)
As for the cities:
Zurich, Geneva, Lausanne: 34-40sqm
Hong Kong 13 sqm (2010)
Warsow, Praque around 22sqm
and surprisingly, Copenhagen and Bern: 44sqm
..I think Bombay was around 3sqm
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Old 01.09.2012, 19:04
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

Pick your favorite http://www.homethemovie.org/ something for everyone
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Old 01.09.2012, 19:21
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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NYC, HK, London, Tokyo. You name it. But Zurich and Geneva look just like a village.
Compared to the other cities you mentioned, Zurich and Geneve are pretty much villages. Have you looked at the respective population numbers?
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Old 01.09.2012, 19:21
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

One of the biggest skyscrapers in Switzerland is the Sulzer Hochhaus in Winterthur:



Built in 62-66, highest Swiss Building until 2003. Empty since that time despite the fact is has been renovated. It's all very complicated.
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  #100  
Old 02.09.2012, 00:56
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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One of the biggest skyscrapers in Switzerland is the Sulzer Hochhaus in Winterthur:

Built in 62-66, highest Swiss Building until 2003. Empty since that time despite the fact is has been renovated. It's all very complicated.
It got purchased by Bruno Stefanini, the 88 years old real estate tycoon

in the photo on the left, and got two additonal floors plus a full renovation. Bruno Stefanini believes that he can either sell or rent it to a large corporation, and re-invest the income into his various interests in arts (galleries, collectios).


Mr Stefanini to the good luck of many handed his Zürich buildings over to Verit Immobilien, a good company, but what can be heard about his buildings in the Winterthur area is not exactly encouraging. Let's see that the renovation was more than 7 years ago.
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