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  #101  
Old 02.09.2012, 01:12
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

I just don't get hate skyscraper mentality in Switzerland, or maybe in Europe.
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  #102  
Old 02.09.2012, 05:48
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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Or maybe you want to create a Singapore 2?


Maybe the Swiss people have realized that the problem is not "where" but "how many"?
1) nice pic... of a container harbour. That's like taking a picture of Oerlikons waste burning plant and claim that Zurich looks like that.



2) The "how many" is pretty tightly connected to "how many do we stack up on top of each other". 85% of Singaporeans OWN the title of the skyscraper flat they live in. In Switzerland do only one third own the flat they live in. To make flats this affordable is only possible by piling them up. I personally prefer high rise buildings with awesome parks in between over widely spread suburbian environments with three level houses.

3) I live over fifty floors high in a pretty cool tower. My condo has a swimming pool, tennis courts, a gym, bbq pits, a library, various functions rooms for parties, a karaoke room, a pool table room and god knows what else. The life style is indeed different, but from all the "quality of life" posts here can I only get the impression that none of you who are against skyscraper have actually lived in one. I prefer mine a lot over the typical Swiss city flats with communal washing room and schedules. Just like the Swiss life style might this not suit everybody as this is this another extreme way to live, but there are different flavours and designs of high rise residential buildings for working singles all the way to families with small kids. Yes, I am convinced that the kids in my last flat had at least as much fun growing up with their own water park than a Swiss kid with some 10 sqm of balcony or garden in Zurich...

Trashing modern skyscrapers without knowing about them is frankly a bit ignorant. Ok, I think I'll go for a round in my jacuzzi now.
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  #103  
Old 02.09.2012, 10:33
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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I just don't get hate skyscraper mentality in Switzerland, or maybe in Europe.
Because most people here (and in the US) have never lived in one, nor would want to.

Tom
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  #104  
Old 02.09.2012, 12:08
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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1) nice pic... of a container harbour. That's like taking a picture of Oerlikons waste burning plant and claim that Zurich looks like that.



2) The "how many" is pretty tightly connected to "how many do we stack up on top of each other". 85% of Singaporeans OWN the title of the skyscraper flat they live in. In Switzerland do only one third own the flat they live in. To make flats this affordable is only possible by piling them up. I personally prefer high rise buildings with awesome parks in between over widely spread suburbian environments with three level houses.

3) I live over fifty floors high in a pretty cool tower. My condo has a swimming pool, tennis courts, a gym, bbq pits, a library, various functions rooms for parties, a karaoke room, a pool table room and god knows what else. The life style is indeed different, but from all the "quality of life" posts here can I only get the impression that none of you who are against skyscraper have actually lived in one. I prefer mine a lot over the typical Swiss city flats with communal washing room and schedules. Just like the Swiss life style might this not suit everybody as this is this another extreme way to live, but there are different flavours and designs of high rise residential buildings for working singles all the way to families with small kids. Yes, I am convinced that the kids in my last flat had at least as much fun growing up with their own water park than a Swiss kid with some 10 sqm of balcony or garden in Zurich...

Trashing modern skyscrapers without knowing about them is frankly a bit ignorant. Ok, I think I'll go for a round in my jacuzzi now.
It always is a matter of perspectives

Here pics of

Woolworth Building, one of the first, and for ages one of the most famous skyscrapers in the world, and the highest in the world between 1913 and 1930
and


the Chrysler Building, one of the most beautiful buildings in the world
and the highest in 1930 and 31

The Prime Tower


in Zürich with its 126 meters fairly modest if compared with the 241 of the Woolworth Building or the 319 of the Chrysler Building. But as Wikipedia says that such buildings of more than 100 meters height ARE skyscrapers it indeed is a skyscraper

as narrowly also is with its 105 meters the Messeturm in Basel


Neither of them is "hated". The Prime Tower is admired. And there will be more 100 to 200 meters high skyscrapers in Switzerland within a decade. But everybody will resist any such buildings within the old city centres

You speak about Singapore
http://app.www.sg/who/4/Our-History.aspx
which is a rather special case. Zürich in comparison to that was established as Turicum by the Roman Empire before 50 BD.

Compare it with the giant city of Bangkok which is relatively low if compared to its size.


No, Europeans do NOT hate skyscrapers, but do not want them everywhere. But even in New York, Ted Kennedy and Jackie Onassis Kennedy a while ago rescued the Chrysler Building from destruction. Those who built the Rockefeller Centre carefully paid respect to the St. Patrick's Cathedral accross the road by building a kind of events place right opposite the church, and so created a nice "ensemble"

Do not forget that in contrast to German cities like
Frankfurt am Main which as late as in 1930 looked as below, NO Swiss city suffered any comparable bombardment. Forget Schaffhausen as that bombardment was a one-time thing, and the city, thanks to USA finance was restored within less than a decade.
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  #105  
Old 03.09.2012, 15:09
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

Coming from Christchurch (you know, earthquake city in New Zealand?), I thought this was slightly pertinent to the topic of skyscraper skylines (if not to the topic of skyscrapers in Switzerland. I'm going to miss the old city when I go back. We didn't have skyscrapers, but there were known buildings, and navigating is going to be a nightmare without the building landmarks!



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  #106  
Old 03.09.2012, 15:42
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

I mentioned earthquakes in post #7!
Surprised it's taken people quite so long to catch up.....
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  #107  
Old 03.09.2012, 15:45
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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Because most people here (and in the US) have never lived in one, nor would want to.

Tom
I would love to live in one and actually like seeing skylines filled with skyscrapers. It's a sign of civilization..
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  #108  
Old 03.09.2012, 16:06
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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I mentioned earthquakes in post #7!
Surprised it's taken people quite so long to catch up.....
The fault line near here is pretty slow moving so the effects of your statement have only now become appararent!
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  #109  
Old 03.09.2012, 16:08
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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1) nice pic... of a container harbour. That's like taking a picture of Oerlikons waste burning plant and claim that Zurich looks like that.



2) The "how many" is pretty tightly connected to "how many do we stack up on top of each other". 85% of Singaporeans OWN the title of the skyscraper flat they live in. In Switzerland do only one third own the flat they live in. To make flats this affordable is only possible by piling them up. I personally prefer high rise buildings with awesome parks in between over widely spread suburbian environments with three level houses.

3) I live over fifty floors high in a pretty cool tower. My condo has a swimming pool, tennis courts, a gym, bbq pits, a library, various functions rooms for parties, a karaoke room, a pool table room and god knows what else. The life style is indeed different, but from all the "quality of life" posts here can I only get the impression that none of you who are against skyscraper have actually lived in one. I prefer mine a lot over the typical Swiss city flats with communal washing room and schedules. Just like the Swiss life style might this not suit everybody as this is this another extreme way to live, but there are different flavours and designs of high rise residential buildings for working singles all the way to families with small kids. Yes, I am convinced that the kids in my last flat had at least as much fun growing up with their own water park than a Swiss kid with some 10 sqm of balcony or garden in Zurich...

Trashing modern skyscrapers without knowing about them is frankly a bit ignorant. Ok, I think I'll go for a round in my jacuzzi now.
That is so true. It is so funny that many people here claim that they have very high quality of life living in apartments of Swiss standards. Laundry in dark, smelly basement, elevators that can barely hold 2 people, no airconditioning at all. It looks more like a developing country
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  #110  
Old 03.09.2012, 16:10
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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That is so true. It is so funny that many people here claim that they have very high quality of life living in apartments of Swiss standards. Laundry in dark, smelly basement, elevators that can barely hold 2 people, no airconditioning at all. It looks more like a developing country
Exactly my point. Laundry rotation, moldy appartments because of bad air circulation as the windows are too airtight, badly soundproofed, tiny amenities and appliances...
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  #111  
Old 03.09.2012, 17:01
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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I mentioned earthquakes in post #7!
Surprised it's taken people quite so long to catch up.....
I have been to Japan recently... they manage to have both earthquakes and skyscraper. As a matter of fact is it very likely safer to be in a well build steel structure during a quake than some traditionally build three story brick house.
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  #112  
Old 03.09.2012, 18:04
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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As a matter of fact is it very likely safer to be in a well build steel structure during a quake than some traditionally build three story brick house.
Absolutely.

bricks buildings + earthquake = nightmare
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  #113  
Old 03.09.2012, 18:48
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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That is so true. It is so funny that many people here claim that they have very high quality of life living in apartments of Swiss standards. Laundry in dark, smelly basement, elevators that can barely hold 2 people, no airconditioning at all. It looks more like a developing country
Does that have to do with skyscrapers, or with other choices? I've been in small buildings with all sorts of luxuries. I've also been in skyscrapers that were distinctly devod of modern technologies and luxuries.
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  #114  
Old 03.09.2012, 19:09
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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Does that have to do with skyscrapers, or with other choices? I've been in small buildings with all sorts of luxuries. I've also been in skyscrapers that were distinctly devod of modern technologies and luxuries.
As Skyscrapers make it possible for more people to live in the same building, it is much easier to have more amenities than a small building with just a few households. It is very common to have a swimming pool in those luxury skycrapers. but it is almost economically impossible to have a swimming pool for a building with only a dozen units.
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  #115  
Old 03.09.2012, 19:32
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

Skyscrapers or not, I want giant refrigerators, giant ovens, and built-in closets!
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  #116  
Old 03.09.2012, 20:21
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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Maybe people from Europe have certain resentment against tall buildings. Never have this problem in Asia, North America or Australia
This is a good post. I'll delete mine if my point is covered in the 3-4 pages I've not yet read, but ...

I've got friends who live in apartment blocks in Singapore, Taiwan and HK. They have good security including a concierge, are kept very clean, the lifts *always* work, the light bulbss are never left blown for more than half a day, they're very well sound proofed, often have great communal aircon, and sometimes are part of a complex with a pool and gym (especially Singapore). And they have underground car parking, with lift access straight to your apartment floor.

In the UK, nearly everyone wants to live in a house. So apartments are lived in often by the poor and also by "council tenants" (those who need state help to find somewhere to live). They're not very securre, sometimes aren't built well, aren't maintained well, and often have a few problem/noisy/rough families living in them.

This is why Europeans are against tower blocks and Asians aren't. In the main.

We think our tower blocks are shit, because they are.
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  #117  
Old 03.09.2012, 20:28
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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If the Swiss really appreciates a calm life, then stop allowing immigration. It is so immoral to attract high paying jobs and then artificially limit housing supply to keep rents high
It could actually be looked at as a clever way to distribute company profits to locals. If you accept a job in Switzerland, unless you're an idiot, you'll research apartment rental costs for the type of place you want. Then you ask for a (high) salary to match.

You get it, pay your rent, and everyone involved in that apartment (landlord, agency, electrician and his 359CHF lightbulb replacement service etc.) gets rich. If you don't get the salary you want so that you can afford to live how you want, you take a job elsewhere.
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  #118  
Old 03.09.2012, 23:37
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

The result of overpopulation is the emergence of shanty towns - like this one:



Cheers,
Nick
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  #119  
Old 03.09.2012, 23:40
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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The result of overpopulation is the emergence of shanty towns - like this one:
Cheers,
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Man, Basel sure has changed since the last time I've been there.
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  #120  
Old 04.09.2012, 00:49
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Re: why there is no skyscrapers in Switzerland

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In the UK, nearly everyone wants to live in a house. So apartments are lived in often by the poor and also by "council tenants" (those who need state help to find somewhere to live). They're not very securre, sometimes aren't built well, aren't maintained well, and often have a few problem/noisy/rough families living in them.

This is why Europeans are against tower blocks and Asians aren't. In the main.

We think our tower blocks are shit, because they are.
Yep.

In England the cool thing has always been a nice thatched cottage with a bit of garden and some roses overlooking the village green. This was extensively celebrated in British culture. Look at Betjeman's Metroland, or Wordswoth's Daffodils. Concrete was never something that we rejoiced in. Victorian architecture is often preserved today, whereas most people would consider the 1960s a lost decade arcitecturally and places like Tower Hamlets and Milton Keynes are not exactly things we are proud of (and most prefer to pretend they don't exist). Skyscrapers were things that nasty foreign folks like Joe Stalin built to suppress the masses and to overcome a deficiency in a certain part of his anatomy. Over in the USA people like Rockefeller built them too because they were rich and had no taste and didn't know what they were doing (whereas interestingly even there the masses didn't catch the trend and continued to build and live in suburban houses with gardens). Maybe now the Asians are building skyscrapers too, but that still doesn't make it right. One of the things I hate about overseas travel are those hotels where you can't open the windows and you can't stop the air conditioning short of using semtex. Give me an honest draught and a rattling window any day.
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