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  #41  
Old 10.10.2012, 14:13
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

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I think it's very different when firearms are involved.
How so?

Again, in the adrenaline-fueled, limited-information scenario that characterizes the typical response to someone breaking into another's home, one doesn't always have enough time nor information to quantify the level of response that would be appropriate. Also, the victim or defender has a very simple goal: to stop the attacker/burglar/invader quickly before they do harm. If it were me, I am going to grab the most capable thing I have to defend myself, whether it's a Model 1911 Colt, a fire poker, or a bat, and I'm going to use that thing to defend myself, whether that means aiming the Colt center of mass and firing or raising the poker above the assailant's head and swinging down.

Why is the gun so different? What if I had a compound bow, crossbow, or was proficient with throwing knives?
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  #42  
Old 10.10.2012, 14:18
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

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as you hadnt noticed i was .....


Your posts make less and less sense. You proud to be a thug?
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  #43  
Old 10.10.2012, 14:21
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

It's all a question of definition.

If you can use deadly force against somebody who enters your house, would it also be permitted in a business premises? Can a store security guard shoot you because they suspect you are going to steal something (ie, because they don't like your face)? What about land? Can a farmer shoot somebody on their land? What if the person didn't know it was private land? What if the person hasn't yet broken into your house but is about to? Or if you mistakenly think he is about to? Or what about if you accidentally forget to lock your door and the neighbvour comes home drunk and comes into your house by mistake? There is a vast soft area, and a blanket approval of shooting isn't the way to go.
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  #44  
Old 10.10.2012, 14:24
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

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Your posts make less and less sense. You proud to be a thug?

thug, i can hardly be described as such. i assume you dont understand the picture then?
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  #45  
Old 10.10.2012, 14:33
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

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thug, i can hardly be described as such. i assume you dont understand the picture then?
Not really, are you trying to be funny?
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  #46  
Old 10.10.2012, 14:41
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

but if you shot and killed someone in your home (and nobody heard). how could you get rid of the body?
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  #47  
Old 10.10.2012, 14:54
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

always use bleach containing hydrogen peroxide
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  #48  
Old 10.10.2012, 14:58
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

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How so?

Again, in the adrenaline-fueled, limited-information scenario that characterizes the typical response to someone breaking into another's home, one doesn't always have enough time nor information to quantify the level of response that would be appropriate. Also, the victim or defender has a very simple goal: to stop the attacker/burglar/invader quickly before they do harm. If it were me, I am going to grab the most capable thing I have to defend myself, whether it's a Model 1911 Colt, a fire poker, or a bat, and I'm going to use that thing to defend myself, whether that means aiming the Colt center of mass and firing or raising the poker above the assailant's head and swinging down.

Why is the gun so different? What if I had a compound bow, crossbow, or was proficient with throwing knives?
Actually, I just think you're painting a fantasy tabloid picture of home invasion, which justifies full violence on your part. Shoot first, ask questions later, american gun ho attitude.
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  #49  
Old 10.10.2012, 15:07
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

Topical from today paper:

Quote:
Amir Khan knocks out thug who tried to his steal Range Rover
Quote:
“Then five of them went for Amir and Haroon but they stood their ground and these guys got dropped one by one.”
All the Khan brothers were doing was defending their property, the witness said
Link here
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  #50  
Old 10.10.2012, 15:12
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

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but if you shot and killed someone in your home (and nobody heard). how could you get rid of the body?
And if you then joke about it on facebook, should you go to prison ?
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  #51  
Old 10.10.2012, 15:20
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

Everything you needed to know about biffing burglars, (not our lovely and caring Biff forum member of course) but were afraid to ask since you happened to be tied to a kitchen chair, gagged and have cigarrettes stuffed up your nose at the time.

Q. Is it true that I am now allowed to biff (* see disclaimer above) a burglar with a baseball bat?
A. Only if you play baseball, and happen to be practising your swings in the bedroom when the burglar breaks into your premises.

Best join a Sunday team in Regents Park to be on the safe side.

Q. How about a golf club?
A. Golf is a very expensive game, and to prove that you are a serious player you will need a caddie. Your wife may object to his presence en suite, unless she fancies a mixed threesome.

Q. But so long as I have a reasonable handicap, I am allowed to clonk a criminal with a club?
A. Only once, using reasonable force. See our leaflet, Householders And The Use of Force Against Intruders, allow 28 days for delivery.

Q. Having read the leaflet and clonked the criminal following its advice, what if I miss?
A. You are probably using the wrong club. Carry a No 3 iron, unless you are in a bunker, when you should take the advice of your caddie.

Q. Do I have to wait to be attacked?
A. There is no obligation to do so, if you have an appointment elsewhere. Ask your intruder to leave his card.

Q. And what's this reasonable force everyone keeps banging on about? If I catch a burglar having it away on his toes after scooping the family silver into a sack, surely it's reasonable to force him to drop it?
A. You misunderstand the phrase. See our leaflet. You are entitled to use reasonable force to recover your property provided you are not acting out of malice. Your best plan is to wear a fixed grin while you are being burgled, and to offer your assailant a cup of tea having clonked him using reasonable force.

Q. Is it all right for me to run down the street after him?
A. What - in those pyjamas? Call the little toerag back to the house and reason with him.

Q. Using reasonable force, of course?
A. You don't seem to be taking this burglary lark seriously. Listen - all you've got to remember if push comes to shove, is that it's all right to behave instinctively.

Q. And what if the Old Bill behaves instinctively and feels my collar while letting my burglar go?
A. You're worrying about nothing, mate. Just do what the leaflet tells you - "So long as you do only what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence."

Q. Yes, but would it get me off?
A. Search me, squire. Mind how you go.
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  #52  
Old 10.10.2012, 15:31
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

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Actually, I just think you're painting a fantasy tabloid picture of home invasion, which justifies full violence on your part. Shoot first, ask questions later, american gun ho attitude.
What would you do in such a situation? Admittedly, I'm American, but if I felt my family was in danger due to a home intruder I would do and use whatever I could, including full violence, to render the intruder incapable of harming my family. Even if, after the fact, it turns out he was "only" there to steal my TV, then I'd still rather beat him senseless and err on the side of caution and potentially face prison when it comes to safety of my 3 year old daughter.
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  #53  
Old 10.10.2012, 15:40
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

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What would you do in such a situation? Admittedly, I'm American, but if I felt my family was in danger due to a home intruder I would do and use whatever I could, including full violence, to render the intruder incapable of harming my family. Even if, after the fact, it turns out he was "only" there to steal my TV, then I'd still rather beat him senseless and err on the side of caution and potentially face prison when it comes to safety of my 3 year old daughter.
It's a fantasy, but, I've walked in on a burgled house before, carried a stick, in my mind, scaring the scrote off would have been sufficient.
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  #54  
Old 10.10.2012, 15:48
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

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its about having a valid reason for having a bat in the car... bat only is a bit suspect

ball and mitt is a different story, it impoves chances of less questions but all depends on plod at the time.
In SA I always had a short wooden baton between the front seats - for in case I needed to break the windshield in case I was trapped underwater in a river, or the door would not open after an accident. I also had metal handcuffs in the cubby-hole, in case I needed a temporary clamp for a broken exhaust pipe. I also had a 9mm, in case I needed to mercy kill an animal in the event of an accident.
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  #55  
Old 10.10.2012, 15:58
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

My Cousin carried an Uzi with 8 extra magaines, we lived in norwood.
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  #56  
Old 16.10.2012, 23:53
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Re: UK Story - Force against burglars

Thanks for the constructive discussion but no one has been able to say what the law is in Switzerland.

Is it safe to assume that you are permitted to shoot a burglar taking into account that you can have a gun at home or is this just in case war breaks out and claiming neutrality doesn't work?
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