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  #61  
Old 17.10.2012, 22:31
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

Been there too! And many friends ad family too - both are awful. One of my daughter's and OH had agree on purchase price of a flat in London, and owners later asked them a 'huge favour' eg to wait for a few months so their children could finish term at local school. It was a pain, but daughter and OH agreed to be helpful - only to find that 3 months later the owners said price had gone up and wanted another 150.000 on top Daughter refused, quite rightly- but they didn't care as they sold quickly again for new asking price!
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  #62  
Old 18.10.2012, 13:02
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

Property prices have indeed gone down in the Nyon area earlier this year. Less than Geneva but still noticeable. There were a lot of excesses in the past 2 years so a correction was really needed.

But from what I heard, there are lots of families living in Pays de Gex - France reconsidering moving to Vaud as they will be charged 8-13% of their salary for french health insurance as of 2014, when affiliation to the french Securite Sociale becomes mandatory and cheap private insurance won't be possible, not to speak about access to swiss doctors and hospitals.

For families making more than ~100K CHF, higher real estate prices in Vaud do still pay off. So this may create a new influx of people into La Cote area.
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  #63  
Old 18.10.2012, 13:37
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Been there too! And many friends ad family too - both are awful. One of my daughter's and OH had agree on purchase price of a flat in London, and owners later asked them a 'huge favour' eg to wait for a few months so their children could finish term at local school. It was a pain, but daughter and OH agreed to be helpful - only to find that 3 months later the owners said price had gone up and wanted another 150.000 on top Daughter refused, quite rightly- but they didn't care as they sold quickly again for new asking price!
Wow! I can't believe you can do that...in the US you sign a contract and that is the price, even when the closing happens months later. That is crazy!
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Old 18.10.2012, 13:54
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Wow! I can't believe you can do that...in the US you sign a contract and that is the price, even when the closing happens months later. That is crazy!
same in the UK. these are for people who informally agree a (non-binding) price but don't sign a contract and then later find that the buyer/seller changes the price prior to signing the contract.
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  #65  
Old 18.10.2012, 14:15
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

UK real estate market is the most corrupt in the world. Between the retarded practice of reneging on prices agreed the day of signing the contract and degenerate real estate agents taking bribes and inflating price expectations, it has got to be the worst. Brits generally have an unhealthy attitude towards property.

I am relatively relaxed about prices in Switzerland. Between limited space, people living longer and what seems like a crazy birth rate, the prices should stay reasonably stable in the long term.
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  #66  
Old 18.10.2012, 14:24
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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I saw an ad which had been posted for more than 5 months.
Is that unusual long?
In fact, its neighborhood flats' sale prices are among the range of 830k to 890K in 2009. Its one's listing price is 1.2m!! Do I have a good chance to haggle with the owner?
Anyone has an idea of the flat price change in Zurich compared to 2009? Is there a 10% or 20% or 30% increase?
My place was on the market for over a year, but this was (in my opinion) due to a lazy / incompetent agent. As I've posted elsewhere, we fired the agent and switched to a different agency, and the place was shown / reserved / sold within 4 weeks.

When I originally put my place on the market, I started the listing at 620K, knowing full well that I wasn't going to sell it for that price. Over the year that it was on the market, we dropped the asking price to 595K, 565K and then 560K with the new agent. The buyer initially offered 520K and we found a compromise in the middle which was acceptable to both of us.

Of course, I felt the pressure to sell as my new house will be ready in a few weeks, and I didn't want to have to carry mortgages on both properties for a long time. I also didn't want to deal with renting out my apartment - there is just too much hassle dealing with renters, the banks and the Swiss tax authorities since I am no longer working in Switzerland.

So in a word - yes. You should expect to negotiate, and then expect more negotiations with your bank when you ask for the mortgage. Most of the big banks are so gun-shy at this time that they will only finance 80% of their estimate of the property value. In other words, if you agree to pay 1 million for the place, but your bank assesses the property at 900 K, they will only give you 720 K in mortgages (80% of their estimate) - the remaining 280 K will have to be paid out of pocket.
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  #67  
Old 18.10.2012, 14:47
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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same in the UK. these are for people who informally agree a (non-binding) price but don't sign a contract and then later find that the buyer/seller changes the price prior to signing the contract.
Everything can be signed... but until the contracts are physically exchanged one of the participants can pull out or try to up the price.

Happened to my Mother; her furniture was being waiting to be loaded onto the removal van the following day, the contracts were signed at with the relevant solictors, but the owners of her new house rang their solicitor to cancel the exchange an hour before it was due to happen. She lost several thousand pounds in fees as well as the sale of her own house.
To add insult to injury, the guilty couple then went around telling people that Mum had been the one to change her mind!
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Old 18.10.2012, 18:46
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Everything can be signed... but until the contracts are physically exchanged one of the participants can pull out or try to up the price.

Happened to my Mother; her furniture was being waiting to be loaded onto the removal van the following day, the contracts were signed at with the relevant solictors, but the owners of her new house rang their solicitor to cancel the exchange an hour before it was due to happen. She lost several thousand pounds in fees as well as the sale of her own house.
To add insult to injury, the guilty couple then went around telling people that Mum had been the one to change her mind!
Your story about your mother is odd as contracts are usually exchanged 28 days before completion, so plenty of time to cancel the removal men.
There is nothing to stop you exchanging contracts on the day of the offer, it's how auctions work!

Offers in the UK are 'subject to contract', so are in effect meaningless-
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Old 18.10.2012, 18:54
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Your story about your mother is odd as contracts are usually exchanged 28 days before completion, so plenty of time to cancel the removal men.
There is nothing to stop you exchanging contracts on the day of the offer, it's how auctions work!

Offers in the UK are 'subject to contract', so are in effect meaningless-
That is nice theory but is in practice impossible. How are lawyers expected to do all checks in a few hours and go over the docs? Please don't defend this absolutely retarded system.
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Old 18.10.2012, 18:59
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Your story about your mother is odd as contracts are usually exchanged 28 days before completion, so plenty of time to cancel the removal men.
There is nothing to stop you exchanging contracts on the day of the offer, it's how auctions work!

Offers in the UK are 'subject to contract', so are in effect meaningless-
Whoever said she'd bought at auction? I certainly didn't.
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  #71  
Old 18.10.2012, 19:01
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

Really strange! Once the contract is signed in the US by both sides, it can really only be cancelled without penalty (without both parties consent) for home inspection or financing issues...
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  #72  
Old 18.10.2012, 19:20
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Your story about your mother is odd as contracts are usually exchanged 28 days before completion, so plenty of time to cancel the removal men.
There is nothing to stop you exchanging contracts on the day of the offer, it's how auctions work!

Offers in the UK are 'subject to contract', so are in effect meaningless-

In the UK you can exchange and complete on the same day - although it is not advisable.
I knew someone whose buyer did that and on that day said -"we are not buying now unless you reduce the price by 20k". These people were not in a chain so just put everything back in the house. It is a scam as if they had agreed the buyer would have then bought and put the house up for sale at the original price - it is a known practice
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  #73  
Old 18.10.2012, 19:21
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Whoever said she'd bought at auction? I certainly didn't.
I did not either, you wrote "Happened to my Mother; her furniture was being waiting to be loaded onto the removal van the following day, the contracts were signed at with the relevant solictors, but the owners of her new house rang their solicitor to cancel the exchange an hour before it was due to happen."

Which in the real world would not happen.

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That is nice theory but is in practice impossible. How are lawyers expected to do all checks in a few hours and go over the docs? Please don't defend this absolutely retarded system.
You do all the checks before making the offer.......rather like in Scotland.

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Really strange! Once the contract is signed in the US by both sides, it can really only be cancelled without penalty (without both parties consent) for home inspection or financing issues...
In the UK once contracts are exchanged, you can't pull out without loosing your deposit, plus further damages if the house sells for a lower price. You have to have financing in place first.

Last edited by Guest; 19.10.2012 at 02:19. Reason: Multiquote please
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  #74  
Old 18.10.2012, 19:40
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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You do all the checks before making the offer.......rather like in Scotland.
The real dirt comes out after you make the offer. You won't get the docs beforehand. You need to see leasehold and share of freehold docs. All the arguments with neighbors, etc...
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  #75  
Old 18.10.2012, 19:45
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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The real dirt comes out after you make the offer. You won't get the docs beforehand. You need to see leasehold and share of freehold docs. All the arguments with neighbors, etc...
Which is why people pull out, or they had aspirations above their means.

My advice is you don't want to buy anything leasehold, loads of problems even if you own 1 share in the company that owns the Freehold.
Buy a house, & only if freehold......
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Old 18.10.2012, 19:56
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Your story about your mother is odd as contracts are usually exchanged 28 days before completion, so plenty of time to cancel the removal men.
There is nothing to stop you exchanging contracts on the day of the offer, it's how auctions work!

Offers in the UK are 'subject to contract', so are in effect meaningless-
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Whoever said she'd bought at auction? I certainly didn't.
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I did not either, you wrote "Happened to my Mother; her furniture was being waiting to be loaded onto the removal van the following day, the contracts were signed at with the relevant solictors, but the owners of her new house rang their solicitor to cancel the exchange an hour before it was due to happen."

Which in the real world would not happen.
It was you that mention auctions, which wasn't the case here.
Buying at auction you are bound by your offer or bid, buying on the open market you aren't; and neither is the seller until contracts have been physically exchanged, and this is usually done at a time and date set by the seller.
I know of several people who've been caught like this, and if there's a chain of houses being bought and sold people often try to time their moves the same day. If one falls through for any reason the whole chain collapses. The English system is full of loop-holes like this, in Scotland the agreement is binding from the moment the offer to buy is accepted.
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Old 18.10.2012, 20:02
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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It was you that mention auctions, which wasn't the case here.
Buying at auction you are bound by your offer or bid, buying on the open market you aren't; and neither is the seller until contracts have been physically exchanged, and this is usually done at a time and date set by the seller.
I know of several people who've been caught like this, and if there's a chain of houses being bought and sold people often try to time their moves the same day. If one falls through for any reason the whole chain collapses. The English system is full of loop-holes like this, in Scotland the agreement is binding from the moment the offer to buy is accepted.
Whilst I mentioned the auction system I did not say or imply that you mother bought at auction.

I do not believe your story about the removal men is true & that is why I pulled you up.
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  #78  
Old 18.10.2012, 20:14
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

@Fatmansfilm - sorry, why would Angela tell us what happened to her mother here, unless it was true?

The English system is dire - and those chains a total nightmare. When we finally 'sold', we were on tender hooks right up to the exchange day - unable to book removals until exchange - and months after the initial sale was supposed to have gone through. Awful for families who have children in school, too. We had the opposite situation year ago too, when we had agreed to buy a house, agreed the price and date, etc, and they kept delaying the exchange of contracts, with some very plausible excuses - only to pull out at the last minute. OH was living in digs in new town 50 miles away, and me on my own with a toddler and 7 months pregnant. We found another house, but didn't know until the very last minute if it would go through - we were so lucky our buyers agreed to wait a bit - but they could have insisted on moving on day agreed. We did move a couple of weeks before baby 2 was born - without any family support and having had an emergency C sectionf for baby 1. The stress was incredible!
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Old 18.10.2012, 20:18
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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@Fatmansfilm - sorry, why would Angela tell us what happened to her mother here, unless it was true?

The English system is dire - and those chains a total nightmare. When we finally 'sold', we were on tender hooks right up to the exchange day - unable to book removals until exchange - and months after the initial sale was supposed to have gone through. Awful for families who have children in school, too. We had the opposite situation year ago too, when we had agreed to buy a house, agreed the price and date, etc, and they kept delaying the exchange of contracts, with some very plausible excuses - only to pull out at the last minute. OH was living in digs in new town 50 miles away, and me on my own with a toddler and 7 months pregnant. We found another house, but didn't know until the very last minute if it would go through - we were so lucky our buyers agreed to wait a bit - but they could have insisted on moving on day agreed. We did move a couple of weeks before baby 2 was born - without any family support and having had an emergency C sectionf for baby 1. The stress was incredible!
If Anjela had said the buyers failed to complete on completion day, that could well be true, however it's not what she said!

EDIT BTW the Swiss system is not that different, until contracts are signed with the Notary either party can pull out.

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 18.10.2012 at 20:28.
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Old 18.10.2012, 20:44
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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If Anjela had said the buyers failed to complete on completion day, that could well be true, however it's not what she said!

EDIT BTW the Swiss system is not that different, until contracts are signed with the Notary either party can pull out.
Ah, but in SZ after both parties come to agreement one then (usually) signs a Vorverkaufvertrag, a contract to sign a contract as it were. One is generally required to put down 10% of the agreed upon sales price (note - this is not your deposit with the bank) and one signs a promise to purchase X house on Y date for Z amount - and any other conditions relevant.

If the buyer pulls out, he loses his 10% - or part thereof, depending one one's negotiating skills and the wording of the Vorverkauf. If the seller pulls out, he must return the 10% plus interest.

We didn't file the Vorverkauf with the Notary, but I understand now that we should have insisted that be done - we were a tad naive back then.

Then on the agreed date, everyone assembles at the Notary's office for the signing of the real contract.
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