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  #81  
Old 18.10.2012, 20:52
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Ah, but in SZ after both parties come to agreement one then (usually) signs a Vorverkaufvertrag, a contract to sign a contract as it were. One is generally required to put down 10% of the agreed upon sales price (note - this is not your deposit with the bank) and one signs a promise to purchase X house on Y date for Z amount - and any other conditions relevant.

If the buyer pulls out, he loses his 10% - or part thereof, depending one one's negotiating skills and the wording of the Vorverkauf. If the seller pulls out, he must return the 10% plus interest.

We didn't file the Vorverkauf with the Notary, but I understand now that we should have insisted that be done - we were a tad naive back then.

Then on the agreed date, everyone assembles at the Notary's office for the signing of the real contract.
I signed an agreement in principle that stated price & nothing else in Switzerland. However I rejected about half of the 20 pages of contract terms & conditions, the other side did not agree to the changes in front of the Notary so I walked. I don't think they ever saw someone crossing out parts of the contract, something that's is very common in the UK, which is what a Solicitors job is all about.
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Old 18.10.2012, 21:14
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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If the buyer pulls out, he loses his 10% - or part thereof, depending one one's negotiating skills and the wording of the Vorverkauf. If the seller pulls out, he must return the 10% plus interest.

Not quite right, if EITHER party pulls out for whatever reason they pay trhe other 10% plus interest, otherwise it would be too easy for the seller to screw around
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  #83  
Old 18.10.2012, 21:35
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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In the UK you can exchange and complete on the same day - although it is not advisable.
I knew someone whose buyer did that and on that day said -"we are not buying now unless you reduce the price by 20k". These people were not in a chain so just put everything back in the house. It is a scam as if they had agreed the buyer would have then bought and put the house up for sale at the original price - it is a known practice
The apartment I'm sitting in now in London I bought without any problems whatsoever.
The apartment next to mine has just been sold for the asking price, completed quickly and easily, and the new buyer has now moved in.
By contrast, the house I recently sold near Lausanne caused me problems because the buyer failed to turn up at the notary's office, and that was the end of that. He obviously didn't care about losing whatever deposit he'd paid, but I'd lost other potential buyers, and still had to pay the notary.
I then lost the chance to buy an apartment in Lausanne because of the cash-flow problem caused. I could have arranged a temporary bank loan, but that would have created additional expense.
The house was finally sold, and I've bought another apartment in Lausanne, but I wasn't any more impressed with the Swiss system than the somewhat corrupt UK version.
Yes, I may have been lucky in London, but then so have my son and one of my daughters, who have both recently bought and sold property in central London without problems.
All is fair in love and war and buying and selling property
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  #84  
Old 19.10.2012, 01:02
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Not quite right, if EITHER party pulls out for whatever reason they pay trhe other 10% plus interest, otherwise it would be too easy for the seller to screw around
In our case (the only one I can speak with any certainty about) the penalties were specifically spelled out, as above. I've heard from friends who negotiated better than we did, though.
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Old 19.10.2012, 09:47
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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In our case (the only one I can speak with any certainty about) the penalties were specifically spelled out, as above. I've heard from friends who negotiated better than we did, though.
Well if the seller just gives back the deposit, then he has no penalty & could pull out at will. As a buyer I would not accept such terms each to his own.
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Old 19.10.2012, 12:29
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

For most people, selling and buying involves moving schools, jobs, etc- and things can become very complicated, with 2-3-4-5 chains forming. If you buy more for investment, and do not have to sell yours to buy- then one can be a lot more choosy, and it is a lot easier to walk away- for most of us it is not an option
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Old 19.10.2012, 12:51
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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For most people, selling and buying involves moving schools, jobs, etc- and things can become very complicated, with 2-3-4-5 chains forming. If you buy more for investment, and do not have to sell yours to buy- then one can be a lot more choosy, and it is a lot easier to walk away- for most of us it is not an option
10% lost by either party would be standard in the UK, the odd one sided terms I would not accept were on a Swiss contract.
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Old 19.10.2012, 13:14
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Well if the seller just gives back the deposit, then he has no penalty & could pull out at will. As a buyer I would not accept such terms each to his own.
As mentioned, we were a tad naive back then. Not a mistake I'll make again.


(Oh the other hand, my determination not to be fooled again has meant that I've been unsuccessfully looking for years now. I've lost a fair few properties to the length of time it takes to do due diligence, to owners who freak at the first suggestion of buyer push-back. Oh well, twasn't meant to be...)
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Old 19.10.2012, 13:19
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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As mentioned, we were a tad naive back then. Not a mistake I'll make again.
I found the entire contract in Switzerland to be totally one sided, they must of thought I was a stupid foreigner.
They also wanted me to agree to forego the protection provided in Swiss law!
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Old 19.10.2012, 13:44
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

actually, in the UK, it is typically only the buyer making a deposit, but with more volatile prices it becomes more popular to have both parties make a deposit to avoid gazumping/gazundering.

when i bought in swtizerland it was also only buyer making a deposit. though in my case, i didn't really care, the seller wanted to get rid of it ASAP.

i also waived statutory protection. from what i could tell, this is standard and i considered it reasonable (i would also require the same when selling).

in the end you have to keep the objectives in mind: you want to buy, he wants to sell - and you want to be sure there are no hidden traps. arguing every single clause in the contract is counter-productive.
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Old 19.10.2012, 14:19
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actually, in the UK, it is typically only the buyer making a deposit, but with more volatile prices it becomes more popular to have both parties make a deposit to avoid gazumping/gazundering.

when i bought in swtizerland it was also only buyer making a deposit. though in my case, i didn't really care, the seller wanted to get rid of it ASAP.

i also waived statutory protection. from what i could tell, this is standard and i considered it reasonable (i would also require the same when selling).

in the end you have to keep the objectives in mind: you want to buy, he wants to sell - and you want to be sure there are no hidden traps. arguing every single clause in the contract is counter-productive.
I only disputed clauses that had not been discussed or agreed beforehand, I always thought a contract was an agreement between 2 people?
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Old 19.10.2012, 14:57
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

In our case, our real estate agent expects the buyer to submit a "reservation deposit" which just happens to cover his fee (2% of the agreed sales price). As soon as this amount has been deposited in a "frozen account", our agent will contact the notary to have the sales contract drawn up.
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Old 19.10.2012, 15:13
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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arguing every single clause in the contract is counter-productive.
I disagree - I think you should agree to every point in a contract. It is one of the most important purchases in your life. We've gone through it 5 times in 3 different countries and now going through a new lease in a share of freehold situation in London. There is no way on earth I would sign something that I wasn't 100% in agreement with. Our final contract here had our names, purchase price, land registry number and that's about it - we had to ask for a clause about taking over their mortgage to be removed.

One house I was considering this year wanted too many terms added to the contract. Things like the current owners needed to find another place - making it really hard to know the timings to sell our current place.
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Old 19.10.2012, 15:42
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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I only disputed clauses that had not been discussed or agreed beforehand, I always thought a contract was an agreement between 2 people?
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I disagree - I think you should agree to every point in a contract. Our final contract here had our names, purchase price, land registry number and that's about it - we had to ask for a clause about taking over their mortgage to be removed.

One house I was considering this year wanted too many terms added to the contract. Things like the current owners needed to find another place - making it really hard to know the timings to sell our current place.
well, by default you agree to every point in a contract once you sign it. what i refer to are points where you have some give and take: does the place have to be fully cleaned, or left besenrein? do you waive statutory protection over preexisting faults, etc.

i'm surprised you can end up with a position where the contract you are presented with at the notary is not what you intended to sign. i made sure to go through all the drafts and told them that the 'final' draft would be the one i would sign at the notary and i would not sign anything that was different even if it was just a comma out of place. this meant that on the day, i just had to scan the documents to make sure they were identical and didn't have to re-read it all - made the process go a lot quicker.
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Old 19.10.2012, 20:15
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

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Our final contract here had our names, purchase price, land registry number and that's about it - we had to ask for a clause about taking over their mortgage to be removed.
.
Thats the sort of contract I like, simple, clear & no possibility of a misunderstanding.
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  #96  
Old 25.10.2012, 18:36
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/14746215

"Property prices will only rise until 2013"

Personally, my comparis searches have recently started to turn up a number of semi-decent houses that weren't completely overpriced.
And a number of long-term "for-sale" stuff has been reduced in price.
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Old 30.10.2012, 13:08
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Re: Property prices, up or down?

We are just across the Border in France and definitely the prices have gone down. I think they will continue to fall here in France and the rest of the EU and that in turn affects the general European market.
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