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Old 30.11.2012, 15:14
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Question about living arrangement

Hey Everyone,

A friend of mine has the following dilemma and is in a panic. I wonder if anyone can help.

She lives as a subtenant in an apartment. She has lived like this for 4 months, and the owner of the apartment was consulted by the tenant about the planned subtenancy prior to her moving in (so knew it was happening, and was ok with her living there for the past 4 months). The subtenancy agreement is between the tenant and the subtenant.

4 months on, the subtenant has now received a demand for her personal info from the owner, inclusive of passport, job, marital status, work permit, company working for...

The owner says she never received all of this info from the tenant, and that it is a legal requirement for the subtenant to give it to the owner.

The owner is being very aggressive in demanding this multiple times a day. What should my friend do, and what are her legal obligations here?
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Old 30.11.2012, 15:15
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Re: Question about living arrangement

From talking to some of the neighbours, they never had to supply this information.
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Old 30.11.2012, 16:20
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Re: Question about living arrangement

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What should my friend do, and what are her legal obligations here?
Err, I may be missing something here, but is there any reason your 'friend' can't just give them the information they're asking for?
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Old 30.11.2012, 16:36
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Re: Question about living arrangement

ffs. just provide the information.

god. some people are so bloody awkward!
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Old 30.11.2012, 17:24
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Re: Question about living arrangement

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What should my friend do, and what are her legal obligations here?
Give the landlord the information s/he is requesting.

That must be the right thing to do as none of us are disagreeing.
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Old 30.11.2012, 17:29
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Re: Question about living arrangement

The suspicion is that the owner will pass on the info, and it's not clear why she needs it.

There's no general refusal to provide info, but there is a request to understand why before handing it over.
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Old 30.11.2012, 17:31
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Re: Question about living arrangement

The owner has a right to this info.

The tenant can sublet, but must pass on the info regarding the subletter.

Tom
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Old 30.11.2012, 17:32
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Re: Question about living arrangement

Isn't this info that everyone who rents a place in Switzerland has to give to the landlord?
Give the details and stop worrying.
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Old 30.11.2012, 17:33
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Re: Question about living arrangement

Why is your friend in a "panic?" This information is frequently required of tenants, so it isn't a stretch to assume it is required of subtenants. What does your friend need to hide? And, did your friend give this info to the tenant who then did not pass it on?

If so, I would A) give the info to the landlord and B) contact the tenant and ask wth they didn't pass on the information required.
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Old 30.11.2012, 17:41
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Re: Question about living arrangement

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The suspicion is that the owner will pass on the info, and it's not clear why she needs it.

There's no general refusal to provide info, but there is a request to understand why before handing it over.
Pass on the info to whom? Your friend is required to provide most/all of that information to the local authorities anyway.


Anyway, yes, the owner does have the right to know a subtenant's "Personalien" or personal details. I am not sure exactly which details this includes but the list you gave (passport, job, permit) doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
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Old 30.11.2012, 18:01
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Re: Question about living arrangement

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Anyway, yes, the owner does have the right to know a subtenant's "Personalien" or personal details. I am not sure exactly which details this includes but the list you gave (passport, job, permit) doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Passport, job, pictures of me naked, what else? Totally outrageous and over the top.

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Isn't this info that everyone who rents a place in Switzerland has to give to the landlord?
Give the details and stop worrying.
Never had to and actually never would. Not his business. The only thing I would do is to give an actual Wohnsitzbestätigung/Registration certificate. That way the landlord sees that I registered my self at the commune everything else is, as said, not his business.
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Old 30.11.2012, 18:17
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Re: Question about living arrangement

Not sure whether they have to get those details by law (like hotels, etc) - or if they have the right to ask or not. But certainly in the current situation, where there is such a shortage of accommodation, a landlord could certainly decide that unless such info is given, they are not obliged to rent to you. If you are sub-tenant in furnished accom. they only have to give you 2 weeks notice and ask you to leave. if as a landlord somebody refused to give such basic info- it would certainly ring alarm bells.

I believe the reason they ask is as security - as sadly many tenants trash the place and then disappear abroad without a trace and with rent unpaid. As usual the few making it hard for the many.

Just give the info requested- unless of course there is a problem there re permit, etc.
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Old 30.11.2012, 18:22
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Re: Question about living arrangement

Here is a list in French of what can be asked and not asked on a rental agreement.

http://www.asloca.ch/?q=node/88
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Old 30.11.2012, 18:31
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Re: Question about living arrangement

As a former UK passport officer I would suggest you NEVER pass on your passport details to a third party!
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Old 30.11.2012, 18:32
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Re: Question about living arrangement

many hotels request this though?
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Old 30.11.2012, 18:38
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Re: Question about living arrangement

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many hotels request this though?
Yes and you are under no obligation to give it to them. If a hotel asks me I show it to them but never hand it over. A passport can be scammed just as easily as a credit card.
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Old 30.11.2012, 18:38
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Re: Question about living arrangement

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Not sure whether they have to get those details by law (like hotels, etc) - or if they have the right to ask or not. But certainly in the current situation, where there is such a shortage of accommodation, a landlord could certainly decide that unless such info is given, they are not obliged to rent to you. If you are sub-tenant in furnished accom. they only have to give you 2 weeks notice and ask you to leave. if as a landlord somebody refused to give such basic info- it would certainly ring alarm bells.

I believe the reason they ask is as security - as sadly many tenants trash the place and then disappear abroad without a trace and with rent unpaid. As usual the few making it hard for the many.

Just give the info requested- unless of course there is a problem there re permit, etc.
Looks like the landlord has to report to the Basel authorities only the name of the tenant. In my opinion a Wohnsiztbestätigung is more than enough, the sub tenant can be identified with it w/o disclosing private details.

Re: termination of the lease. The landlord of a sub-tenant is the original tenant of the place. The rental agreement is only between those two parties the original landlord and owner of the apartment is not involved and can not terminate the subtenancy.

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Here is a list in French of what can be asked and not asked on a rental agreement.

http://www.asloca.ch/?q=node/88
Most of this only applies to potential tenants, but in this case the lease is already ongoing.

Quote:
The following data will be collected when the lessor is under a legal obligation
reporting to an authority. In addition, they will be only with people about
which such a declaration is required
Confession
Marital status, date of marriage, separation or divorce
Citizenship / nationality (license category, length of stay in Switzerland)
Place of origin
Address and telephone number of the employer, length of employment contract
But Basel needs the name only.
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Old 30.11.2012, 18:47
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Re: Question about living arrangement

OK thanks for the info. So they don't have to ask - but would the landlord be legally allowed to refuse a tenant if they refuse to give such info?
As a landlord (I am not btw) - I would want the security of knowing who is a tenant in case of damage, disappearance without payment, etc - although with a sub-tenant the tenant would be responsible.

Last edited by Odile; 30.11.2012 at 18:58.
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Old 30.11.2012, 18:53
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Re: Question about living arrangement

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Most of this only applies to potential tenants, but in this case the lease is already ongoing.
Even so, s/he is still asking for things s/he shouldn't. Naughty Landlord!


Of course, I, personally, don't see what the issue is about giving him/her the info. But I'm sure I'm super naive.
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Old 30.11.2012, 18:59
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Re: Question about living arrangement

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Yes and you are under no obligation to give it to them. If a hotel asks me I show it to them but never hand it over. A passport can be scammed just as easily as a credit card.
Actually a hotel has to record the details of each foreigner staying with them. To do this you have to show your passport but you do not have do hand it over (So that they can make a photocopy). Art. 18 VZAE If the hotel does not record the details it will have the problem Art. 120 AuG (but not the traveler, except if he refuses to show the passport).
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