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Old 21.12.2012, 13:23
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Laws re: disabled access - private property?

Google is not being my friend today, so I'm hoping that someone here knows the answer...

Are there any (cantonal/federal) laws that establish or protect the right to create disabled access on private property? That is, overriding a Gestaltungsplan?

I am considering some renovations to make my house wheelchair accessible. I own the property, but it is part of a Quartier governed by a Gestaltungsplan. Under the Gestaltungsplan we are forbidden from making exterior changes. An exception would require a vote of the residents of the Quartier, and approval by the Gemeinde and cantonal Bauamt.

We have steps to the house. The steps are wholly on my private property, but are visible to the other houses. I am considering a chair lift, the kind that attach to a stair rail or wall. To (hopefully) minimize neighborhood objections, I would enclose this behind a nice looking stone wall so that the lift itself was not visible to neighbors; the wall would harmonize with the Quartier design.

This is the kind of thing I am thinking about:
http://www.abledata.com/abledata.cfm...discontinued=0

I am fairly certain that the neighbors will vote no - so before I present a proposal I'd like to better understand Swiss law around disabled acccess. If there is any, that is.

Any insights would be much appreciated.
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Old 21.12.2012, 13:34
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

I don't know the details in SZ...but as far as i know you would need ( what's called here ) a small building permission ( kleines baugesuch) which you have to file with the Bauamt in your city/town/village, because the intended stairlift is altering the outside look on your house and the wall you intend to erect would also fall under this ( kleine baubewilligung)

So it looks you may have to bite the sour apple and propose this to the Quartierleist(?) plus filing for building permission...I presume...since it's something to enable access for handicapped people,,you won't have too many hurdles to climb.
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Old 21.12.2012, 13:36
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

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Google is not being my friend today, so I'm hoping that someone here knows the answer...

Are there any (cantonal/federal) laws that establish or protect the right to create disabled access on private property? That is, overriding a Gestaltungsplan?

I am considering some renovations to make my house wheelchair accessible. I own the property, but it is part of a Quartier governed by a Gestaltungsplan. Under the Gestaltungsplan we are forbidden from making exterior changes. An exception would require a vote of the residents of the Quartier, and approval by the Gemeinde and cantonal Bauamt.

We have steps to the house. The steps are wholly on my private property, but are visible to the other houses. I am considering a chair lift, the kind that attach to a stair rail or wall. To (hopefully) minimize neighborhood objections, I would enclose this behind a nice looking stone wall so that the lift itself was not visible to neighbors; the wall would harmonize with the Quartier design.

This is the kind of thing I am thinking about:
http://www.abledata.com/abledata.cfm...discontinued=0

I am fairly certain that the neighbors will vote no - so before I present a proposal I'd like to better understand Swiss law around disabled acccess. If there is any, that is.

Any insights would be much appreciated.
Public buidlings don't even have such laws and therefore, I can hardly imagine that private homes need to adhere to stricter laws.
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Old 21.12.2012, 13:43
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

I would just go and ask the Commune. One solution that would be better for a wheel-chair user and with less visual impact is a steel platform that would go at the other end of the stairs, like the ones at the end of minibuses for the disabled - which would allow the wheel-chair and occupant up to the top- then fold back against the wall.
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Old 21.12.2012, 13:44
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

I was dealing with RehaLift in Bad Zurzach. You may want to ask them what their experience is on this subject.

I honestly cannot imagine neighbours blocking this. The houses over the road from us have one. I think the manufacturer is Rigert. It is a platform model and barely noticeable.

Do you have legal insurance? This would possibly cover you if you get into a dispute with your neighbours.

If you need any contact names at Rehalift, send me a PM.


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Google is not being my friend today, so I'm hoping that someone here knows the answer...

Are there any (cantonal/federal) laws that establish or protect the right to create disabled access on private property? That is, overriding a Gestaltungsplan?

I am considering some renovations to make my house wheelchair accessible. I own the property, but it is part of a Quartier governed by a Gestaltungsplan. Under the Gestaltungsplan we are forbidden from making exterior changes. An exception would require a vote of the residents of the Quartier, and approval by the Gemeinde and cantonal Bauamt.

We have steps to the house. The steps are wholly on my private property, but are visible to the other houses. I am considering a wheel chair lift, the kind that attach to a stair rail or wall. To (hopefully) minimize neighborhood objections, I would enclose this behind a nice looking stone wall so that the lift itself was not visible to neighbors; the wall would harmonize with the Quartier design.

This is the kind of thing I am thinking about:
http://www.abledata.com/abledata.cfm...discontinued=0

I am fairly certain that the neighbors will vote no - so before I present a proposal I'd like to better understand Swiss law around disabled acccess. If there is any, that is.

Any insights would be much appreciated.
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Old 21.12.2012, 13:46
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

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Public buidlings don't even have such laws and therefore, I can hardly imagine that private homes need to adhere to stricter laws.

Usually you are a mine of super info LIB but this time it's sadly so that red tape does have the upper hand there's a gazillion of stuff to consider even for such a small thing as installing an outside stairlift....

@meloncollie, heres what i found of Ct. SZ ....you would fall under the VEREINFACHTES VERFAHREN....Details to how this is handled should be available from the ''Bauamt'' in your Gemeinde

http://www.sz.ch/xml_1/internet/de/a...753/p23696.cfm
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Old 21.12.2012, 13:50
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

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Usually you are a mine of super info LIB but this time it's sadly so that red tape does have the upper hand there's a gazillion of stuff to consider even for such a small thing as installing an outside stairlift....

@meloncollie, heres what i found of Ct. SZ ....you would fall under the VEREINFACHTES VERFAHREN....Details to how this is handled should be available from the ''Bauamt'' in your Gemeinde

http://www.sz.ch/xml_1/internet/de/a...753/p23696.cfm
Why thank you. I misread OP's post. She would definitely need to take it up with the local commune as every law is different.
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Old 21.12.2012, 14:23
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

I find it odd that if there is a particular need that is not "personal wants/desires" driven that anyone could object tbh.

I would contact the Gemeinde's Bauampt (sp?) as a first step for clear instruction.

In our area you can do pretty much anything you want up to around 1 m in height. Thereafter planning permission is needed.
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Old 21.12.2012, 14:50
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

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@meloncollie, heres what i found of Ct. SZ ....you would fall under the VEREINFACHTES VERFAHREN....Details to how this is handled should be available from the ''Bauamt'' in your Gemeinde
Wouldn't work w/o prior consent of the neighbors.

Quote:
§ 79 53 c) Vereinfachtes Verfahren
1 Die Bewilligungsbehörde bewilligt kleinere Bauvorhaben oder Änderungen
bewilligter Bauvorhaben ohne Auflage und Publikation, wenn das schriftliche
Einverständnis der direkten Anstösser
und der zuständigen Bewilligungsinstanzen
des Kantons und des Bezirks vorliegt. Sie dispensiert in solchen und anderen
begründeten Fällen auch von der Erstellung eines Baugespannes.
2 Sie zeigt die Bewilligung den direkten Anstössern und den zuständigen Bewilligungsinstanzen
des Kantons und des Bezirks an.
3 Fehlt das schriftliche Einverständnis eines direkten Anstössers, so wird diesem
mit der schriftlichen Anzeige eine Frist von 20 Tagen angesetzt mit dem Hinweis,
dass innert dieser Frist Einsprache erhoben werden kann.
http://www.sz.ch/documents/400_100.pdf

But perhaps the lift will be treated as a minor change which only needs a notification:
Quote:
§ 75 Abs 6 Für geringfügige Bauvorhaben genügt die Erfüllung der Meldepflicht. Bleibt ein
der zuständigen Bewilligungsbehörde gemeldetes Bauvorhaben innert 20 Tagen
seit Eingang ohne Widerspruch, so gilt es als bewilligt. Die Bewilligungsbehörde
kann die Zuständigkeit zum Widerspruch an die Bauverwaltung delegieren.
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Old 21.12.2012, 20:31
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

Is there a way to do it with a removable ramp so it's not a permanent fixture? Would like to see any neighbours win a battle on that. Otherwise, I guess it has to be first stop Bauamt, explaining your concerns re neighbours' consent vs physical need

FWIW in canton Zurich it's fiendishly difficult for neighbours to object to any planning applications providing the application complies with the strict letter of the law. My mother's neighbourhood recently had a case where the construction project next door was planned to extend to the min distance from the boundary meaning the new building was only 4 metres from the existing house, totally destroying the existing view and privacy. the owner of the affected plot was advised they didn't have a leg to stand on although their grounds for concern were much much greater than your neighbours could possibly have.
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Old 21.12.2012, 20:47
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

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I was dealing with RehaLift in Bad Zurzach. You may want to ask them what their experience is on this subject.
Best suggestion so far!
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Old 22.12.2012, 08:58
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

Thanks for the ideas and advice one and all.

The reason I'm looking at a lift rather than a ramp is that there are 20 steps up to the house - there isn't space at the front of my property for a ramp at a useable incline, most of my ground is behind the house.

----

I fear this will be an uphill battle. If I were only dealing with the Bauamt I wouldn't be quite so concerned - but the biggest hurdle is the Quartier Gestaltungsplan.

In the time I have lived here all proposed exterior changes have been voted down, no matter how reasonable or inocuous the request. The majority of the Quartier homeowners are afraid that any exception to the strict 'no exterior changes' rule would open the floodgates for further, more extreme, alterations. Which I do understand - people are trying to protect their investment.

I was hoping that there might be some sort of disabled access legislation that could override the Gestaltungsplan, so that we could find a compromise.


---

At present I'm exploring all options... but this has certainly opened my eyes to the challenges one faces here when looking for accessible housing.

Most housing is built on hillsides, steps to the property are the norm, homes built on a small footprint with multiple stories/stairs are common, doorways and passages are usually built narrow - and building regulations generally make renovating for accessibility difficult.

A challenge indeed for those with mobility concerns.
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Old 22.12.2012, 16:45
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

I agee with Odile's suggestion. I would make an appointment with whomsover is initially responsable in your commune for such an alteration/addition to your property, and explain the situation personally to him/her. I would like to think that such an approach would meet with a sympathetic reaction, which would facilitate whatever needs to done in the future. Good Luck.!
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Old 22.12.2012, 17:39
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

Salut Meloncollie.
Here is a good site to look for Info. http://www.hindernisfrei-bauen.ch/bauvorschriften_d.php
I hope you can understand German. I think with this law from 2002, you should have no problem at all.
This Law overrides the Quartier Gestaltungsplan, it gives you the right of access to your house.

Salut Zämma

Last edited by Big Mara; 22.12.2012 at 17:59.
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Old 22.12.2012, 17:49
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

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Thanks for the ideas and advice one and all.

The reason I'm looking at a lift rather than a ramp is that there are 20 steps up to the house - there isn't space at the front of my property for a ramp at a useable incline, most of my ground is behind the house.

----

I fear this will be an uphill battle. If I were only dealing with the Bauamt I wouldn't be quite so concerned - but the biggest hurdle is the Quartier Gestaltungsplan.

In the time I have lived here all proposed exterior changes have been voted down, no matter how reasonable or inocuous the request. The majority of the Quartier homeowners are afraid that any exception to the strict 'no exterior changes' rule would open the floodgates for further, more extreme, alterations. Which I do understand - people are trying to protect their investment.

I was hoping that there might be some sort of disabled access legislation that could override the Gestaltungsplan, so that we could find a compromise.


---

At present I'm exploring all options... but this has certainly opened my eyes to the challenges one faces here when looking for accessible housing.

Most housing is built on hillsides, steps to the property are the norm, homes built on a small footprint with multiple stories/stairs are common, doorways and passages are usually built narrow - and building regulations generally make renovating for accessibility difficult.

A challenge indeed for those with mobility concerns.
Is it possible to modify the steps you have?
Something like this.http://http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTeSZ7CFpVx5B49QUWwPoOZ3TKz6QTQX wwyuSj__Tx6_CgUshj0

I have also seen concrete steps that have the ramp in the middle of the steps, just can't find a picture of what I mean by that right now, but maybe you get my meaning.

I think that should be very possible, as in, you would not be building anything unsightly, you would be re-vamping, or rather "re-ramping" your home access to be more precise

It would also be a lot less expensive I imagine. I was wondering, do you intend this with people in mind or is it more for the bow wows?
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Old 22.12.2012, 18:12
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

Quite honestly, most flight of steps are far too steep to be easily turned into a ramp - and those that have those 'tracks' up them are maybe Ok for a pram, a shopping trolley or a bike, but wheelchairs are often heavy even without the occupant!

In fact, once you have the knack and if the occupant has decent arm control and knows what he/she is doing too, steps are not as scary as a very steep ramp. One can tip the chair back and stop on each step.
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Old 22.12.2012, 18:38
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

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Quite honestly, most flight of steps are far too steep to be easily turned into a ramp - and those that have those 'tracks' up them are maybe Ok for a pram, a shopping trolley or a bike, but wheelchairs are often heavy even without the occupant!

In fact, once you have the knack and if the occupant has decent arm control and knows what he/she is doing too, steps are not as scary as a very steep ramp. One can tip the chair back and stop on each step.
Fair enough, mind you that was why I asked whether it was for people intended or not, if it's with four footers in mind.

There is however this, as another instance that may be the solution for wheelchair users, and does away with the need for any building permits altogether.http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...55534169,d.Yms

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Old 22.12.2012, 20:37
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

What I haven't understood, Meloncollie, is for whom you want handicapped access, yourself, someone who lives in your house or for someone who does not live in your house?

The law referenced above has to do with discrimination against handicapped people being forbidden. What I draw from this is that if you require handicapped access to your house, that need takes precedent over other considerations, however the actual plans and construction of such access may need be submitted to and approved by the Bauamt of your Gemeinde.

I think the suggestion to contact Reha-Lift is probably your best one-stop advice source.
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Old 22.12.2012, 21:31
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

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What I haven't understood, Meloncollie, is for whom you want handicapped access, yourself, someone who lives in your house or for someone who does not live in your house?
Why does this matter? To me it shouldn't matter whether it is the homeowner personally or a family member coming to live with them.

If my neighbours objected to the building of such an essential item, I would move because at the end of the day, I would not want to live in a neighbourhood where people are so concerned about aesthetics that they lack compassion for the needs and well being of others.

Some neighbours may also be of the opinion that given the cost of installing an outside stair lift, if someone can afford to do this (which will not add any value to your home when you sell it and in fact a potential buyer may ask you to remove it) the homeowner should be able to afford to move.
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Old 22.12.2012, 23:23
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Re: Laws re: disabled access - private property?

Believe it or not, this is one thread that is actually about two-legged family members.

I've been looking into this as a sort of a contingent plan; if it becomes necessary to bring one of the parents here, my house needs to be made accessible. Given that such a move would likely need to be made in haste, and given that haste is not a word in the Bauamt vocabularly, I'm trying to do as much forward planning as possible.

You bring up a good point, J_T; since I am doing this for someone not yet here, that could count against me in the permit application. However, if I can't make the house accessible, I can't bring him here. A Teufelskreis.

As mentioned I'm looking into all possible options - here and Stateside.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions - I am very grateful.

Last edited by meloncollie; 23.12.2012 at 23:23. Reason: sudden attack of apostrophe abuse
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