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Old 09.10.2006, 10:38
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Betreibungsauszuges [Debt Registry Extract]

I am looking to get an apartment, together with the application form I need to get my Betreibungsauszuges, does anyone know what this is and how to get it? I presume it is some sort of credit reference.
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Old 09.10.2006, 10:53
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

Hi matthewnorth,

this is an official statement that you have no official debts owing, or something to that effect (if you don't pay a bill, and continually ignore the warnings etc. it gets serious when it gets reported to the authorities and is called a 'Betreibung' - a big black mark against your name. The debt can be small or large, such as not paying your phone bill, through to defaulting on mortgage payments...)

You can get this statement (Betreibungsauszug) from your local community office, who have a register of them (Betreibungsregister). For Zürich in general, try this website (sorry, in German). If you live in a suburb you will need to go to your local one - try googling to find it.

hope that helps!
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Old 09.10.2006, 10:59
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

Incidentally, there's another thing called a "Strafregisterauszug" which is a similar official statement that you have no (unspent?) convictions. I had to get one of these when applying for my current job.

Both these things have a nominal fee (around CHF 20 ish).
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Old 09.10.2006, 13:01
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

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I am looking to get an apartment, together with the application form I need to get my Betreibungsauszuges, does anyone know what this is and how to get it? I presume it is some sort of credit reference.
For a C-Permit, Citizenship, and also many jobs, this document is required. It basically shows if you have defaulted on bills or debts. Strangely enough, these registered are kept at the Gemeinde (Council) level. Why they haven't gone to a central databank yet is beyond me. I have lived in two different Gemeindes since being here, which means I have to go to both each time I need these documents. It is a good reason not to change Gemeindes too often. The standard fee is 17CHF per original.

On the subject of register entries, you want to avoid these like the plague. Especially if you are non-EU seeking a C Permit or citizenship, you want to keep this as clean as a whistle. Christoph Blochers son-in-law was refused the little red book because he had too many betreibung registrations. Working in many financial or security related positions will also require a clean slate on this one.
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Old 09.10.2006, 13:36
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

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On the subject of register entries, you want to avoid these like the plague. Especially if you are non-EU seeking a C Permit or citizenship, you want to keep this as clean as a whistle. Christoph Blochers son-in-law was refused the little red book because he had too many betreibung registrations. Working in many financial or security related positions will also require a clean slate on this one.
Does this includes such things as Billag (TV license)?

Personally I pay mine to do exactly what Lob said - keep everything in order and correct. There are threads here about the merits and moriality of paying Billag
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Old 09.10.2006, 13:53
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges [Debt Registry Extract]

Don't get confused here. There are two separate issues:
  • Failing to register, or incorrectly registering with Billag
  • Failing to pay a Billag Bill.
The former is punishable by a fine. A Betreibungsregister entry will only be issued for the latter, or failing to pay the fine for the former.
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Old 09.10.2006, 13:54
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

Billag is backed at Federal level. It will show up rather clearly as a non-payment (but of course you need loads of warnings to get these things on your record and as Richard states, this means that they [Billag] are billing you and you are registered).

There is no question of morality; it's a duty paid by you for the right to receive TV [and radio] signals - nothing more, nothing less.

In fact the money raised by this not-so-stealth tax keeps my mother-in-law in D&G
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Old 09.10.2006, 14:11
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges [Debt Registry Extract]

Sorry for confusing things...

I simply meant to reinforce litespeed's post (not Lobs)

Cheers
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Old 14.10.2006, 19:23
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

Quote:
it gets serious when it gets reported to the authorities and is called a 'Betreibung' - a big black mark against your name. The debt can be small or large, such as not paying your phone bill, through to defaulting on mortgage payments...)
Incidentally, anyone can put a Betreibung against you. When this happens you will get a letter from the Gemeinde telling you that you have x number of days to go in and collect it. DO NOT EXCEDE THIS DEADLINE, otherwise you are technically agreeing to the debt.

Go to the Gemeinde and check if you are actually at fault. You will then have a set number of days to pay the Gemeinde directly (debt plus administration fee) or reject the bill. If you reject the bill then it is up to the other person to prove that you are at fault.

I received two Betreibung. The first was incorrectly sent to me by my insurance company who willingly pulled it back when I pointed out their error. The second was my fault and I paid the Gemeinde directly.

I discussed the issue of black marks with them at the time and they assured me that it is only usually an issue if someone is regularly demonstrating an unwillingness to pay bills. In other words, it will be difficult to rent another apartment if you are constantly not paying for your current one.
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Old 16.10.2006, 20:39
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges [Debt Registry Extract]

Quote:
I am looking to get an apartment, together with the application form I need to get my Betreibungsauszuges, does anyone know what this is and how to get it? I presume it is some sort of credit reference.
Hi Matthew,

A bit of a different angle here to the other posters. I see in your introduction that you recently arrived in Switzerland - so there will be no record of your financial history here in Switzerland. Therefore getting such documentation is pointless.

My advice would be to tell your landlord or the person handling your application that you've only just arrived, but would be happy to provide other references (like a letter from your landlord in Amerinca) on request. But something seems a little odd here - do you actually HAVE the apartment, or are all applicants being asked to attach their documentation - if so this would seem a little rude since each one has to be paid for..

Most likely the person handling it will not really know what to do and just tell you not to worry about it. They do love pieces of paper though, so offer to shower them with things like letters from your employer saying how great you are. Most likely they'll take your willingness to provide paper as sufficent evidence that you are well behaved and tell you not to worry about it.
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Old 16.10.2006, 22:31
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

Quote:
Incidentally, anyone can put a Betreibung against you. When this happens you will get a letter from the Gemeinde telling you that you have x number of days to go in and collect it. DO NOT EXCEDE THIS DEADLINE, otherwise you are technically agreeing to the debt.

Go to the Gemeinde and check if you are actually at fault. You will then have a set number of days to pay the Gemeinde directly (debt plus administration fee) or reject the bill. If you reject the bill then it is up to the other person to prove that you are at fault.

I received two Betreibung. The first was incorrectly sent to me by my insurance company who willingly pulled it back when I pointed out their error. The second was my fault and I paid the Gemeinde directly.

I discussed the issue of black marks with them at the time and they assured me that it is only usually an issue if someone is regularly demonstrating an unwillingness to pay bills. In other words, it will be difficult to rent another apartment if you are constantly not paying for your current one.
This is an interesting post you make here...

You are quite right that a Betreibung can be sent by anyone who has provided you with two warnings for non-payment even if you reject both with good reasons. You will then get a registered letter which if you are not in will be available at the post office for the usual 7 days. Thereafter you will be invited to collect from the town hall. As you point out you will thereafter be in default.

Furthermore, your Betreibung is in the form of a letter that outlines the reasons for the Betreibung but is not in great detail. The Betreibung letter and the actual betreibung are uniquely (Swisswide) allocated a number and all the numbers are then placed on a register. These entries are only ever removed by betreibung retraction or court order which does not often occur. This means that even if you are completely innocent you can have your name on this register...

You are then given I think 14 days from the date of receipt to answer the betreibung. The answer is basically guilty or take me to court ie I reject this and plead innocent. If the former you then pay the town hall the outstanding money plus an administration fee. Note here that the claimant can claim for interest and nominal administration in addition to the outstanding amount but that is all. Note nominal administration ie not 100 + Francs.

If you take the court route and the amount is small you are likely to be left stuck. This means that the person giving you the betreibung says I do not want to proceed. This mark is left as unresolved on your record and that shows up to all searching. The only way to get this removed is to go to court and ask for this to removed. Even then banks can still see the complete records with very few exceptions so this system is actually evil.

I have had two run ins. One was with the forerunner to Sunrise who had no idea about billing. I had even a fax from their accounts department telling me that they had made a mistake and please ignore the bills. I did and then sent me a betreibung. Thankfully they did this with quite a lot and the court threw them all out and order the numbers for everyone guilty or not to be erased. The second was with Orange again I won here but lo and behold I now have a credit limit imposed on my mobile phone
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Old 16.10.2006, 22:36
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

Quote:
Furthermore, your Betreibung is in the form of a letter that outlines the reasons for the Betreibung but is not in great detail. The Betreibung letter and the actual betreibung are uniquely (Swisswide) allocated a number and all the numbers are then placed on a register. These entries are only ever removed by betreibung retraction or court order which does not often occur. This means that even if you are completely innocent you can have your name on this register...

You are then given I think 14 days from the date of receipt to answer the betreibung. The answer is basically guilty or take me to court ie I reject this and plead innocent. If the former you then pay the town hall the outstanding money plus an administration fee. Note here that the claimant can claim for interest and nominal administration in addition to the outstanding amount but that is all. Note nominal administration ie not 100 + Francs.
We have just given in and decided to pay up on one of these bills (military tax charged on the wrong income ), rather than have to not only pay the bill but the court costs and extra 400 CHF fee as well.

Any idea how long does this stay on your record?
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Old 16.10.2006, 22:50
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

Quote:
We have just given in and decided to pay up on one of these bills (military tax charged on the wrong income ), rather than have to not only pay the bill but the court costs and extra 400 CHF fee as well.

Any idea how long does this stay on your record?
Yes I have, the usual 10 years as with everything to do with money in Switzerland - oh unless you are the government in which case it can be 3 months or a bankrupt which goes after 7 years.

Interesting that you mention the 400 fee - what was/is this for as the court would with 99.99% certainty through that out.

This is actually one of the fair points of the system. It is designed to allow the small man to stand up to the big bully and therefore is relatively cheap to dispute without the big bully slapping you with 10K in legal expenses... all that is allowed is nominal administration
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Old 19.10.2006, 08:52
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges [Debt Registry Extract]

Quote:
Hi Matthew,

A bit of a different angle here to the other posters. I see in your introduction that you recently arrived in Switzerland - so there will be no record of your financial history here in Switzerland. Therefore getting such documentation is pointless.

My advice would be to tell your landlord or the person handling your application that you've only just arrived, but would be happy to provide other references (like a letter from your landlord in Amerinca) on request. But something seems a little odd here - do you actually HAVE the apartment, or are all applicants being asked to attach their documentation - if so this would seem a little rude since each one has to be paid for..

Most likely the person handling it will not really know what to do and just tell you not to worry about it. They do love pieces of paper though, so offer to shower them with things like letters from your employer saying how great you are. Most likely they'll take your willingness to provide paper as sufficent evidence that you are well behaved and tell you not to worry about it.
Thanks mark....i do have an apartment at the moment but it was found and fully paid for by the company....however, i do think it is in my name so some documentation may exist. I decided to write them an email a few day ago explaining my situation....it is also complicated by the fact that I am only on a temporary registration for 3 months at the moment until we finalise my contract negotiations. I have offered them all sorts of documentation etc but not received a reply yet....my next plan is to get my assistant to translate it into German to see if that has an effect.
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Old 19.10.2006, 09:05
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges [Debt Registry Extract]

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I have offered them all sorts of documentation etc but not received a reply yet....my next plan is to get my assistant to translate it into German to see if that has an effect.
Hint: use the telephone. If you are renting out an apartment you have lots of people wanting to move in. If you've written an email it takes more effort on the part of the landlord to read it and answer it. Also when you have him on the phone he more likely to co-operate with you, especially if you are being reasonable. Writing in English may also make him think that he is expected to reply in English - a prospect he probably doesn't relish. So pick up the phone or ask your assistant to do it - you might find that a friendly telephone manner opens doors in ways that an email will not...
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Old 19.10.2006, 09:16
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

The details of the debt is obviously stored internally for some time, for records purposes, but if you can get the company involved to certify that it has been cleared or withdrawn, then it will no longer appear on your credit history printout and is erased and not provided to any third parties. The report printout is that you use amongst other things to get an apartment.

Unless they are real bstards most companies or government agencies will remove the debt. If its a personal vendetta then I have no idea whether they have to justify their position for not doing so.

Therefore unless you have an outstanding debt, it is very important to ensure that the Betreibungsamt has received a certificate or confirmation that the debt has been resolved.

dave

Quote:
We have just given in and decided to pay up on one of these bills (military tax charged on the wrong income ), rather than have to not only pay the bill but the court costs and extra 400 CHF fee as well.

Any idea how long does this stay on your record?
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Old 19.10.2006, 09:36
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges [Debt Registry Extract]

Quote:
Hint: use the telephone. If you are renting out an apartment you have lots of people wanting to move in. If you've written an email it takes more effort on the part of the landlord to read it and answer it. Also when you have him on the phone he more likely to co-operate with you, especially if you are being reasonable. Writing in English may also make him think that he is expected to reply in English - a prospect he probably doesn't relish. So pick up the phone or ask your assistant to do it - you might find that a friendly telephone manner opens doors in ways that an email will not...
Concur...

My HR people called on my behalf and said I'm a nice guy, reliable etc, as well as giving me some letter of reference. I think it helped...
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Old 19.10.2006, 13:10
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

Quote:
The details of the debt is obviously stored internally for some time, for records purposes, but if you can get the company involved to certify that it has been cleared or withdrawn, then it will no longer appear on your credit history printout and is erased and not provided to any third parties. The report printout is that you use amongst other things to get an apartment.

Unless they are real bstards most companies or government agencies will remove the debt. If its a personal vendetta then I have no idea whether they have to justify their position for not doing so.

Therefore unless you have an outstanding debt, it is very important to ensure that the Betreibungsamt has received a certificate or confirmation that the debt has been resolved.

dave
Hi Dave,

Sorry to give you bad news but all that happens is that the entry is flagged as closed... It still does appear on your printout for all to see... And as I said even those that have been removed are visible to banks... I know I got my bank to show me a copy that they see. Helps if your bank manager is a personal friend.
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Old 19.10.2006, 13:20
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

It does not appear on your Betreibungsauszuges if the other party agrees to it being removed. It is flagged as closed if you just pay it and do nothing without getting the instance removed. I have no clue what the banks get to see.

dave

Quote:
Hi Dave,
... all that happens is that the entry is flagged as closed... It still does appear on your printout for all to see... .
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Old 19.10.2006, 18:26
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Re: Betreibungsauszuges

Quote:
The details of the debt is obviously stored internally for some time, for records purposes, but if you can get the company involved to certify that it has been cleared or withdrawn, then it will no longer appear on your credit history printout and is erased and not provided to any third parties. The report printout is that you use amongst other things to get an apartment.

Unless they are real bstards most companies or government agencies will remove the debt. If its a personal vendetta then I have no idea whether they have to justify their position for not doing so.

Therefore unless you have an outstanding debt, it is very important to ensure that the Betreibungsamt has received a certificate or confirmation that the debt has been resolved.

dave
Thanks for the excellent info. We'll have to get one and see if it has been removed or not, and take action if it hasn't.
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