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Old 07.04.2013, 13:37
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Connecting a German 220V kitchen appliance bought in France to a 400V outlet in CH?

So my wife wants to get rid of our 20+ year old kitchen. Having got a price estimate in CH, it would be ~50K CHF. The *same* kitchen in France is only 25K CHF. Each and every appliance costs all at least 100% more :-(

The problem is that apparently, french appliances work all under 220V, in particular the oven and the stove. These connections are 400V in Vaud (where we live). The swiss kitchen guy is scaremongering us with this argument, in order to not buy appliances outside CH!

Given that the appliance brand is a German one (Siemens), would there be a possibility to connect the 220V oven and the 220V stove to the existing 400V connection with some work(?) ?

Or do I need to order the same appliance in Germany, would that help?

I have read of many people buying their kitchens in Germany and installing them in CH. What about buying in France (still German appliances but french power standards), anybody knows how to solve this?

(Not that I would NOT want to do the cabling myself, rather get an electrician to do it, but I want to know if it is possible at all and if it represents a major work!)

I think the same problem applies to washing machines, which have sometimes 400V connections rather than 220V ... has anyone imported these to CH when moving in from other european countries?

I've been told that 400V in reality is a 3-phase combination of 220V current but I hardly know what a Volt is :-( ...

Thanks for *any* help!
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Old 07.04.2013, 13:43
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Re: Connecting a German 220V kitchen appliance bought in France to a 400V outlet in C

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I've been told that 400V in reality is a 3-phase combination of 220V current but I hardly know what a Volt is :-( ...

Thanks for *any* help!
It's possible that the cooker can be connected to both 220 v & 380 v in any case. German appliances will work & usually be 3 phase.

The only issue is how many amps per phase is available, it should be possible to put the Hob on 1 phase & the oven on another.

If you can give some links to the appliances, then it will be easier to say what issues you may have. As French houses often only have 16a available in total it may not be an issue.
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Old 07.04.2013, 13:48
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Re: Connecting a German 220V kitchen appliance bought in France to a 400V outlet in C

About "I've been told that 400V in reality is a 3-phase combination of 220V current but I hardly know what a Volt is :-( ..."

The 400V outlet should have a socket that looks like the one in the picture. As you can see you can use a normal Swiss 3 pin 220v plug in this socket in the top 3 holes.

If you just have a cable coming out of the wall you will need an electrician to install the socket; should cost not more than 150CHF.

Last edited by marton; 08.12.2017 at 17:38.
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Old 07.04.2013, 14:08
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Re: Connecting a German 220V kitchen appliance bought in France to a 400V outlet in C

I would buy the kitchen in France, including the montage! But ask the French supplier to supply a 3 phase oven.

Or you can order one in Germany and even collect it yourselves, http://www.gelbeseiten.de/elektro-ha...raete/loerrach you should easily be able to reclaim the 19% tax, you need to get the documents stamped on the border.

The problem is that 3 phases are used in Switzerland and Germany to even out the current loading in the supply cables. This means your house wiring to the oven is probably only 10 Amp for each of the 3 phase connections, but your oven and cooker would use a total of maybe 16 Amps. It really is better to buy a 3 phase cooker and oven.

Your fuse box for the cooker probably has 3 x 10 amp contact, and putting 16 amps on this will not work. Your electrician would need to pull out the 3 phase cable and put in a thicker one phase cable, and a 16 amp fuse.

Your next problem would be getting spare parts. Most companies would only stock 3 phase heating elements in Switzerland, you might have to order a single phase heating element.

I did once convert a double oven English cooker to 3 phase working: it is possible but I had to rewire the internal cooker. I first connected all the wires for the first oven to phase 1, the second oven & grill to phase 2, and the 4 hotplates / hob to phase 3. It worked well, but it took a while to sort out all the wiring!
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Old 07.04.2013, 20:37
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Re: Connecting a German 220V kitchen appliance bought in France to a 400V outlet in C

Dear All,

many thanks for all your responses!

@marton: Unfortunately there is no outlet it seems - the cable comes out straight from the wall. The installation dates from ~20 years back.

@fatmanfilms: The list of appliances is below. To the french models, I have added what I found as similar models in CH and DE. The price difference with CH is just shocking.

Unfortunately, I really don't understand much - it seems the induction stove is supposed to work on 220V in Switzerland as well, but delivering 7200W which would mean 33A by dividing 7200/220? (apologies if I get it all wrong!)

The DE product either specifies no voltage (stove) or 220-240V (oven). Would it still be usable on 400V?


Induction stove:
1. France: Table Cuisson induction (F) EH651BX17E. Prix 829EUR. Puissance raccordement 7200W (donc 7200/220=33A en une phase!?!) (http://www.siemens-home.fr/nos-produ...?source=browse)
2. Suisse: Table cuisson induction (CH) EH645QE11E. Prix 1940 CHF. Puissance 7200W (220-240V!) (http://www.siemens-home.com/ch/fr/pr...?source=browse)
3. Induktions-Kochfeld (DE) EI645EB11. Prix 650 EUR. 7000W. Voltage? (http://www.siemens-home.de/produktsu...?source=browse)

Oven:
Four HB75GB560F (France). 1120EUR. Puissance raccordement 3650W (donc 3650/220=16.6A) (http://www.siemens-home.fr/nos-produ...B75GB560F.html)
Four HB75GB550C (Suisse). 3390CHF. Puissance raccordement 3650W (16A, 400V) (http://www.siemens-home.com/ch/fr/pr...?source=browse)
Four HB76GB560 (Allemagne). 864E-1099E. 3650 W, 220-240V, "Schuko-/Gardy m. Erdung" (http://www.siemens-home.de/produktsu...?source=browse)


Many thanks again!
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Old 07.04.2013, 21:03
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Re: Connecting a German 220V kitchen appliance bought in France to a 400V outlet in C

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Dear All,

many thanks for all your responses!

@marton: Unfortunately there is no outlet it seems - the cable comes out straight from the wall. The installation dates from ~20 years back.

@fatmanfilms: The list of appliances is below. To the french models, I have added what I found as similar models in CH and DE. The price difference with CH is just shocking.

Unfortunately, I really don't understand much - it seems the induction stove is supposed to work on 220V in Switzerland as well, but delivering 7200W which would mean 33A by dividing 7200/220? (apologies if I get it all wrong!)

The DE product either specifies no voltage (stove) or 220-240V (oven). Would it still be usable on 400V?


Induction stove:
1. France: Table Cuisson induction (F) EH651BX17E. Prix 829EUR. Puissance raccordement 7200W (donc 7200/220=33A en une phase!?!) (http://www.siemens-home.fr/nos-produ...?source=browse)
2. Suisse: Table cuisson induction (CH) EH645QE11E. Prix 1940 CHF. Puissance 7200W (220-240V!) (http://www.siemens-home.com/ch/fr/pr...?source=browse)
3. Induktions-Kochfeld (DE) EI645EB11. Prix 650 EUR. 7000W. Voltage? (http://www.siemens-home.de/produktsu...?source=browse)

Oven:
Four HB75GB560F (France). 1120EUR. Puissance raccordement 3650W (donc 3650/220=16.6A) (http://www.siemens-home.fr/nos-produ...B75GB560F.html)
Four HB75GB550C (Suisse). 3390CHF. Puissance raccordement 3650W (16A, 400V) (http://www.siemens-home.com/ch/fr/pr...?source=browse)
Four HB76GB560 (Allemagne). 864E-1099E. 3650 W, 220-240V, "Schuko-/Gardy m. Erdung" (http://www.siemens-home.de/produktsu...?source=browse)


Many thanks again!
I would ask an electrician how much it will cost to put 2 or 3 x 32amp circuits in your kitchen. I am amazed by how much power these A efficiency appliances need. In France I have an entire flat running off 16 amp, OK you can't put everything on at once or the trip blows!

I think 32 amp circuits will do fine, the next size up is probably 63 amp & that will get expensive!.
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Old 07.04.2013, 21:07
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Re: Connecting a German 220V kitchen appliance bought in France to a 400V outlet in C

We had a three phase (400V) electrical outlet. It was a simple matter to convert this to three 220V single phases. Get a quote from an electrician - it may just require some simple rewiring.
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